Viola and Cello - a suggested reality check

[coder]

There have been several new viola and cello VI's released in recent months. How do yours stack up to reality?

As one example of reality, a useful work I encountered serendipitously: Double Concerto for Viola and Cello by Huw Watkins. A BBC recording is available for about the next month here at 1:39 in.

The work itself sounds (to my listening) somewhat a la Stravinsky, which is to say, it would be a challenge for virtual instruments. The other point of interest is the venue, a small hall that has been designed on recent thinking in architectural acoustics, and which merits audition of itself, since it is quite unlike the norm for orchestral halls that we are used to.

I went for Samplemodeling's viola and cello - I have yet to give them the inordinate amounts of head-scratching time typically needed to get SM's stuff to 'sing' authentically and to sound 'authentic'. There has been criticism of their timbre, but on the basis of this performance I am not so sure that it is entirely - if at all - justified.

[RobS]

thank you Coder for the link, I didn't know the composer Huw Watkins, nice find... and I agree that when performance/phrasing becomes so crucial samplemodeling is one of the first choices one has. Btw, one of the things that bother me with swam instruments is the monophonic kind of output combined with a lack of a resonating body... I tend to always insert on the swam output a convolution reverb with a simple impulse generated by hitting my violin or another instrument so that it gets some body.

[Piet De Ridder]

There’s a scene in “Sneakers” where Redford’s team, attempting a break-in in a high-security building, have to forge a voice pass, and to do that, they first ‘sample’ some cunningly steered dialogue one of the team had with a high-ranked employee, and then edit that recording so that it comes out sounding like the required phrase “My voice is my passport. Verify me”.

The sound and diction of that fake pass — strangely sounding like the real thing and, as such, quite convincing on several levels (enough to fool the security system), but … impossible to mistake for the natural speech of a real human being — is, to me, the perfect illustration of what sample libraries are like.

Only to say: reality checks — thorough comparisons between sample-based performances and real ones —, can be a deeply frustrating and discouraging experience.
For example: despite the flood, in recent months, of some rather good new stringlibraries, I can still post a million examples of real-strings-in-action that illustrate how utterly impotent, blunt and primitive even the best of these sampled simulations still sound. And the same thing definitely applies to solo strings as well.

(The number of orchestral mock-ups I’ve abandoned, only because I had the sound of the real thing in the back of my mind, … not a pleasant thought.)

Now, for many tasks we want or are asked to do, it’s not all as bad as the above suggests of course, I’m merely saying that ‘reality checks’ sometimes bring the complete opposite of the guidance and inspiration we seek from them.

_

[The Saxer]

Reality check is always a good thing. Brings everything into the right perspective. We only get closer if we compare... otherwise we would still operate with Roland sawtooth pads called "strings". And it's wise to know what doesn't work and where simulation has it's borders. Sure it's not the real thing. But we can definetily make music in the box that was impossible twenty years ago. Even five years ago. Heaven for composers and arrangers.

[givemenoughrope]

I've been trying to ask this question on Vi-C, here and anywhere else: What is the ultimate goal/end with solo string samples? Are they used in order to mockup for a real quartet/small group performance/recording? Are they to be tucked in with larger string samples? Are they to be the final product? Really? Bc if so, the only thing I've ever heard as passable, not even realistic but not glaring or screaming "these are samples" are either a few single notes, MAYBE few notes passages or (more likely and the only passable usage in my experience) section chords. I've used Adagio's solo patches just to voice some chords, non-legato and not musically connected (ie a short rest between). Lord knows I've been praying for solo string libraries. I've pulled apart old collections and made new patches with xfd layers, SIPs, and anything else. It has never been more obvious to me that samples are just not the way to go, possibly not even for mocking up some styles of playing either unless you're using Embertone or Samplemodeling. I think that with something like Sable, EVOs or Adagio you can write for samples (to their strengths) and not be completely let down by their fake-ness if they are in a supporting role but I guess I can't really imagine that being the case with solo strings.

I'd love t hear otherwise though. (And I do remember Rob's great Ravel mockup, probably the best quartet mockup Ive heard, but it probably took a while! http://www.robertosoggetti.com/ewquartetravel2mics.mp3)

[RobS]

thank you givemenoughrope for quoting my Ravel... in my case, the reason for doing mockups is mostly to prepare previews for pieces that will eventually be played live. So for me, clarity and coherency in the phrasing matter more than a beautiful sound because my committer has to understand the writing and not be dazzled by a reverberant patchwork of samples. I will always prefer something like that Ravel or this www.robertosoggetti.com/StringQtetKH-Swam.mp3 in spite of the rawness of sounds...

[Lawrence]

that Ravel of Rob's is simply awesome, agreed.