VSL : Synchron Duality Strings (Sordino) Released !

[Guy Rowland]

With under a week to go before I have to decide if I keep or return, I spent some more time with SDS sords today. I'd worked on an existing piece earlier in the week with partially successful results, but I wanted to try something bespoke that felt like it should live in Sordino territory. Most of all I wanted to compare with my LASS Sordinos, to see if I really needed VSL for that sound.

Here's the VSL version (it's a bit incoherent as a piece, I just wanted to try a few different artics).
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/spz959h8 ... vb9g6&dl=0

Overall it was very good to work with. Lots of good options to craft a performance - though I would like a marcato with more of an aggressive start. The Mix is essentially out of the box, except I pushed the B Dark position for a little more detail and added my usual Seventh Heaven tail.


Here's LASS 3 Sordinos (just the first section)
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/foif5xok ... rh01l&dl=0

You'll instantly hear it sounds like a buzz-saw next to VSL (and yes, I kept CC1 below half way - I redid all CC1 for this and CineSamples). Also notice that bump between 1st and 2nd notes. Overall one your ears adjust it's not too bad performance-wise, but it's obviously tonally completely different.


Now - for fun - CineSamples Appassionata (just first section, not Con Sordino as they don't have legato patches for those)
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p3d5m7nw ... 10bzf&dl=0

It's not a bad tone - unfair to directly compare as it's not sordino - but I found it REALLY hard to get a performance out of it, the dynamics feel very one level. Also the basses are from regular CineStrings cos it's just 1 octave in the Pro patches I discovered (!)

Anyway, overall I think I answered my question fairly emphatically - VSL SDS Sordinos gives me a sound I really don't have anything like. I honestly thought I'd be returning it, thinking I'd over-imagined the difference, but I clearly haven't.

[Ashermusic]

Guy, could we download the MIDI so that I can heat what it sounds like with the Strezov Afflatus Chapter One Scene d’Amour instruments, which are con sordino?

[Linos]

LASS 3 sordino sounds almost broken next to Duality here. They have an odd buzzing and nasal sound. Duality Con Sordino sounds quite lovely.

[Guy Rowland]

Guy, could we download the MIDI so that I can heat what it sounds like with the Strezov Afflatus Chapter One Scene d’Amour instruments, which are con sordino?

Sure and thanks very much - I'd love to hear how those patches sound, I've really liked the sound of them in demos.

This should be just the 5x strings midi, 95bpm, with no keyswitches - not sure if CC1 will come through, but I'd recommend you redraw it to match the library anyway. Some of the timing is loose which suited VSL and LASS, but I quantised it far more for the CineSamples version whose attacks were pretty brutal and hard-in.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y26hutzj ... ighfa&dl=0

[Ashermusic]

Guy, could we download the MIDI so that I can heat what it sounds like with the Strezov Afflatus Chapter One Scene d’Amour instruments, which are con sordino?

Sure and thanks very much - I'd love to hear how those patches sound, I've really liked the sound of them in demos.

This should be just the 5x strings midi, 95bpm, with no keyswitches - not sure if CC1 will come through, but I'd recommend you redraw it to match the library anyway. Some of the timing is loose which suited VSL and LASS, but I quantised it far more for the CineSamples version whose attacks were pretty brutal and hard-in.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y26hutzj ... ighfa&dl=0

Great thanks. Look forward to playing around with it tomorrow/

[Ashermusic]

Guy, could we download the MIDI so that I can heat what it sounds like with the Strezov Afflatus Chapter One Scene d’Amour instruments, which are con sordino?

Sure and thanks very much - I'd love to hear how those patches sound, I've really liked the sound of them in demos.

Here you go. Bear in mind, the Afflatus Chapter 1 Scene d'Amour sordini only have two articulations, legato and tenuto, and no basses so I used the CSS basses sordini. They respond to cc11, not cc1.I also doubled the lead line an octave higher and randomized the tempo to make it less robotic.

I added a little reverb from the Quantum 27772 eVolution and the UAD Neve 33609 C compressor on the stereo output.

Scene d'Amour sordini example.mp3

(1.24 MiB) Downloaded 1032 times

[Guy Rowland]

Thanks so much for taking the time to do that, Jay!

Well I expected VSL to be sweeter than all the others, but I'm kinda shocked at the margin by which it distances them. All these other libraries can work in the right contexts, but seems to me if you need butter there's nothing else that comes close.

I really thought I'd be getting my money back. I'm kinda annoyed.

That original Contact demo so captures the feel of the original. Although it's exceptionally well programmed, and it's a gorgeous Silvestri composition and arrangement, it is the tone of the strings that feels like new sonic ground for samples.

[Ashermusic]

Thanks so much for taking the time to do that, Jay!

Well I expected VSL to be sweeter than all the others, but I'm kinda shocked at the margin by which it distances them. All these other libraries can work in the right contexts, but seems to me if you need butter there's nothing else that comes close.

I really thought I'd be getting my money back. I'm kinda annoyed.

That original Contact demo so captures the feel of the original. Although it's exceptionally well programmed, and it's a gorgeous Silvestri composition and arrangement, it is the tone of the strings that feels like new sonic ground for samples.

Funny, I actually prefer the sound of the Afflatus ones, but I am hooked on the Dave Grusin -Sergio Mendes aesthetic, and it’s subjective l

[Lawrence]

Gotta go with the VSL on this one Jay.

I’d be curious though-if you’re still in experimental mode, your Afflatus demo seems much drier. Can you give it a bit more space and not double the lead 8va?

[Guy Rowland]

Also perhaps worth noting that SDS is in another league for sordino articulations. Most of the alternatives are extremely limited - Jay and I had to dive to alternative non-sordinos to flesh things out. The shorts are really good in SDS, actually a lot more bite than I expected. The brief appearance @47s in the VSL version is really low dynamics to keep it from being too strident.

I believe that the pizzicatos are the same as the main SDS, otherwise it's all sordino unique.

[Ashermusic]

Gotta go with the VSL on this one Jay.

I’d be curious though-if you’re still in experimental mode, your Afflatus demo seems much drier. Can you give it a bit more space and not double the lead 8va?

Sure, here it is, and I took off the compressor as well.

Scene d'Amore sordini example 2.mp3

(1.24 MiB) Downloaded 1119 times

[Ashermusic]

Also perhaps worth noting that SDS is in another league for sordino articulations. Most of the alternatives are extremely limited - Jay and I had to dive to alternative non-sordinos to flesh things out.

True dat.

[Lawrence]

Gotta go with the VSL on this one Jay.

I’d be curious though-if you’re still in experimental mode, your Afflatus demo seems much drier. Can you give it a bit more space and not double the lead 8va?

Sure, here it is, and I took off the compressor as well.

Scene d'Amore sordini example 2.mp3

Much better to my ears. Competitive for sure.

[Guy Rowland]

Much better to my ears. Competitive for sure.

Agreed, it definitely sounds better to me too, though the reverb sounds a little swampy to me.

It's a shame that there's no shorts in Jay's version, but that's the practical reality of no shorts in the library.

[Ashermusic]

While the VSL sounds great and is more articulation rich, I can’t spend that kind of dough on it when between Afflatus Chapter One and CSS I can get the music done.

And now that I think of it, I should see how Hollywood Strings sordini sound, especially with the vintage mics. I may post that later.

[Guy Rowland]

While the VSL sounds great and is more articulation rich, I can’t spend that kind of dough on it when between Afflatus Chapter One and CSS I can get the music done.

And now that I think of it, I should see how Hollywood Strings sordini sound, especially with the vintage mics. I may post that later.

Cool - that's the sordino EQ button on Play/Opus, right? I didn't miss anything did I?

[Ashermusic]

While the VSL sounds great and is more articulation rich, I can’t spend that kind of dough on it when between Afflatus Chapter One and CSS I can get the music done.

And now that I think of it, I should see how Hollywood Strings sordini sound, especially with the vintage mics. I may post that later.

Cool - that's the sordino EQ button on Play/Opus, right? I didn't miss anything did I?

Correct, simulated sordini, not recorded.

[Ashermusic]

Oh wow, obviously a bigger sound, but HS with the instruments set to "Soft", Vintage and Mid mics, with the sordino script, sending to EW Spaces So. California Hall-Strings, sounds gorgeous to me.

See what you guys think.

HS Sordini example.mp3

(1.24 MiB) Downloaded 1208 times

[Guy Rowland]

Interesting, thanks Jay - I might try the same trick here too to restore the shorts and the V1s down an octave.

[Ashermusic]

Interesting, thanks Jay - I might try the same trick here too to restore the shorts and the V1s down an octave.

I did switch to the shorts in places, but since the original MIDI file is all set to 1 MIDI channel, there's no obvious way to know by looking at the notation where you intended them to be, and whether,, spiccato, staccato, pizzicato, etc. and I didn't; spend time listening to your original to making notes.

I see that I transposed Violin 1 up an octave but the others are correct, no?

Just a side comment that Nick P. will love
Strings libraries come and strings libraries go, and there are now tons of good ones that especially shine at specific tasks, but for all its overreaching to be all things anyone could ever want, which resulted is some patches that didn't; behave properly, etc. there is to my mind still no other that matches HS for completeness, great sound and versatility, especially now with Opus and the Classic, Epic, and Soft choices.

The only thing it can't do is chamber size sound. It still blows me away.

[richhickey]

Here's a couple with MSS, one with the full sections and one with half sections:

mss sordino.mp3

(1.93 MiB) Downloaded 994 times

mss half sections sordino.mp3

(1.9 MiB) Downloaded 1155 times

[Guy Rowland]

Ah sorry Jay - the short notes are just the short midi notes! I just took out the keyswitches from the midi as I knew they'd be useless. And yes, you'd need to have listened to the reference for the intent I guess.

But to save any more hassle, here it is from my end, copying your audio settings from HO basically. It was a total PITA to get up and running mostly because HO's midi CCs are different to everything else I own (I ended up remapping CC7 to CC1 along with the vibrato, and a Cubase midi script stops the midi going below 10). I have the basic HO strings set up in the template, but I wanted to do these from scratch using HOOPUS. The only things I changed audio-wise - I took off the OPUS reverb and used the same I've used for all the others, Seventh Heaven Scoring Stage. I also added some main mics for the bass pizzis and less mid mics, I like a slightly more distant sound for these to stop them being too in-your-face. Also the HOOPUS soft setting in particular results in a VERY quiet output, I ended up with 20db of gain put in Cubase to have them match the rest of the template!

I also added back the ProjectSAM harp for a better A/B with the VSL version (only the VSL has the rubbish latter sections with more shorts, just did the main section here).

HOOPUS (using soft audio settings inc EQ'd Sordino)
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/thvx0r1r ... vvh9n&dl=0

ORIGINAL SDS SORDINOS
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/spz959h8 ... vb9g6&dl=0

And... MUCH closer than any of the others. The connectivity of the notes sounds really good. I just used slurred legato here, I might be tempted to use just a shade of port here and there if I revisit it.

The main downside is lack of air. Probably inevitable on simulated sordinos. Comparing the two, the VSL is lighter. and the swell from the section at 38s might be a little more lovely with the VSL, but it's close.

All of which means.... with 4 days to go you maaaay have saved me a few hundred bucks, Jay! Still not definitely decided, I'll sleep on it and listen and play again tomorrow with fresh ears. (Having just spent £1.5k to keep the bloody car on the road may slightly affect my decision-making).

Interested to know how others find the relative strengths and weaknesses.

[Guy Rowland]

Here's a couple with MSS, one with the full sections and one with half sections:

mss sordino.mp3

mss half sections sordino.mp3

Oh thank you very much! Not bad at all - a bit more brittle, but there'd be times when that would suit.

[Ashermusic]

Guy, as you know HS legato patches use cc11, so in my version I recorded cc11 and cc7, no cc1.

Please understand, I am not trying to dissuade anyone from buying VSL’s offering. Because of my lack of paying work that involves anything I can’t already adequately do, it just isn’t an option for me.

[Guy Rowland]

Guy, as you know HS legato patches use cc11, so in my version I recorded cc11 and cc7, no cc1.

CC1 is vibrato, no? So adding 7 (or 11 - same thing imo) to the modwheel tends to work pretty well for me - as the playing gets louder it has more vibrato intensity. It has more flexibility to have it as two separate CCs of course, but most libraries combine the two effectively so it's just the way of working I'm used to with (almost) everything else. In place of 7 or 11 I just ride the audio volume - they're all exactly the same effect to me.