Musio - latest stuff

[Guy Rowland]

Thought from here on one Musio thread would be helpful.

They just did an AMA livestream today.



I like these AMAs a lot, seeing the human being behind it all, and I like their openness and honesty.

They did say that moving the keyswtich octave is pretty high on their agenda - yay. They're hoping to start rolling out mic positions early next year. Download all is coming "soon" on an individual instrument basis, and the instruments will be arranged in collapsible menus - there'll be no "download all" button for everything or per library, that works at an instrument level.

On top of their published roadmap (world series etc) and stuff not yet ported like Taylor Davis, they'll be working on new stuff including an augmented series manipulating orchestral samples. They are toying with AI helper features, and seeking user input on what they do or don't want.

[Guy Rowland]

Quite a nice update today. Tons more keyswitch patches for the CineSymphony range, and some new Cinestrings legato patches.

Cinestrings Core has some new espressivo legatos - heavy vibrato basically. Just a shame that, as with Cinestrings Pro, there's no decorative legatos - it's very clean note transitions which doesn't go far enough imo. However the new Performance Legato in the solo strings DOES have portamento, to add to the regular and espressivo.

[GR Baumann]

Side note:

I was briefly chatting with Guy re the Options in the market for orchestral libraries. Thanks Guy.

It can be very confusing in deed. Project SAM, VSL, EW, Spitfire, Stretzov, Musio, Orchestral Tools, Sonokinetic, Audio Imperia, Embertone, oh well, not to forget Heavyocity too, but I am sure I forgot other important Developers, apart from specialized niche products. Some use NI Kontakt, others have their own player.

Is RAM these days still the main limitation for bigger templates or can a very fast external Raid-0 SSD setup compensate for lack of RAM?

[Guy Rowland]

Side note:

I was briefly chatting with Guy re the Options in the market for orchestral libraries. Thanks Guy.

It can be very confusing in deed. Project SAM, VSL, EW, Spitfire, Stretzov, Musio, Orchestral Tools, Sonokinetic, Audio Imperia, Embertone, oh well, not to forget Heavyocity too, but I am sure I forgot other important Developers, apart from specialized niche products. Some use NI Kontakt, others have their own player.

Is RAM these days still the main limitation for bigger templates or can a very fast external Raid-0 SSD setup compensate for lack of RAM?

It is, as they say, a minefield.

There's a thread here somewhere about RAM experiences on the Apple M series, still very much a concern today as the RAM is so expensive. I think the summary is - you can push things more than you used to and it uses disk instead of RAM, but there's a limit before performance suffers.

That said, everything in my template is disabled and purged in VE Pro. When I enable an instrument I need (which is automated so a button on my keyboard does it), it loads with all the samples purged from memory. As I play, it loads just those the samples in the background and it works really well - you get the occasional glitch on a first play, but a) it's only occasional and b) it never does it again for that note or transition. That way I keep my RAM use really low, I hardly ever get near 32gb, never mind 64gb. On a big legato instrument with tons of velocity layers and transition, you only actually use a tiny fraction on most individual pieces, so it really makes sense as a method.

Musio have said that they're looking to introduce this functionality, but it's not there yet. Although they've slipped from their original roadmap, I think the pace of additions and improvements is nevertheless impressive. Jumping in early on the lifetime subscription deal felt like a risk worth taking, the only other time I've done something like this was the VIR Harmonic Bohemian series which started with a crazy cheap deal and all future updates were free. Both times it has worked out for me - in this case I've found Cinesamples a solid company so it seemed a reasonable bet.

[GR Baumann]

That said, everything in my template is disabled and purged in VE Pro. When I enable an instrument I need (which is automated so a button on my keyboard does it), it loads with all the samples purged from memory. As I play, it loads just those the samples in the background and it works really well - you get the occasional glitch on a first play, but a) it's only occasional and b) it never does it again for that note or transition. That way I keep my RAM use really low

Ingenious.

Supposedly you record onto Miditracks, which adds to stress the system when you play back and record another instrument on top. Or do you convert them individual tracks to audio right away? I assume not, and just at the pre-mixing stage?

I am wondering what I could do with my 24 Gb RAM MacMini. (Still having that MacPro 8 Core Monster with 64 Gig (on Mavericks) wrapped up in a box, and I wonder if I could make use of it to join the MacMini, but this thing has a scary 1000 watt power supply.)

[Guy Rowland]

Supposedly you record onto Miditracks, which adds to stress the system when you play back and record another instrument on top. Or do you convert them individual tracks to audio right away? I assume not, and just at the pre-mixing stage?

I am wondering what I could do with my 24 Gb RAM MacMini. (Still having that MacPro 8 Core Monster with 64 Gig (on Mavericks) wrapped up in a box, and I wonder if I could make use of it to join the MacMini, but this thing has a scary 1000 watt power supply.)

Freezing the midi as audio definitely reduces the resource load - I usually do this right at the end of the process, especially if I want to final mix in Pro Tools which I often do. But if you're happy, no reason not to do it sooner (if you are using a multi-timbral instrument you'd need to freeze all the midi tracks together).

Is your DAW Logic? I'd start by running orchestral instruments purged and see how far you get with 24gb, might well be further than you'd think Things get much more bloated and messy when a 2nd computer gets involved imo.

[Guy Rowland]

Taylor Davis violin has been added, which I've not had before. Where this seems to excel is in fast legato phrases which are very agile and not smeary. Vibrato is pretty strong, so I accordingly miss port transitions for emotive stuff. It feels limited in what its appropriate for, but what does do is pretty rare in sample libraries.

They had another long Q&A the other day that I caught some of. Nothing much headline-grabbing and new, but affirmed all the features they were working on including better navigation. Oh, one change is that when Download All comes, they've decided to implement this on a by-product basis - ie, download all of Cinebrass Core, not download all of 6 trumpets. I guess this makes sense as for most of the individual instruments may will just download the keyswitch patch, which in turn downloads all of the samples as well for the individual instruments.

They also confirmed that for the time being there will be no more Kontakt updates, but never say never.

Livestream video here, but it doesn't open in this post automatically like normal, you'll have to click the damn thing - https://www.youtube.com/live/T-sAOFY68U ... IrU7ExNbaj

Here's a trailer for their upcoming world instruments:

[Geoff Grace]

Thanks for the info, Guy!

They also confirmed that for the time being there will be no more Kontakt updates, but never say never.

That’s more than a little disappointing to hear, especially in light of the commitment that Cinesamples made to a CineSymphony 2.0 update:

CineSymphony 2.0 Update -- New GUI Sneak Peek!

I realize that they did at least release the 2.0 version of the strings, but I’d hate to see them drop development on the brass update. It’s arguably the best sounding brass on the market, and perhaps even the best product they've ever released, but it could certainly use an update.

I don’t want to have to buy into Musio to get what was supposed to be a free update.

Best,

Geoff

[Guy Rowland]

Two brand new libraries added - Women Of The North choral library and Iceland.

Women of the North is the female companion to the older Men Of The North, an Icelandic choir. It seems pretty good, the lower register Mmmms in particular are very nice. The legato largely plays well, there's a few bumps here and there.

The Icelandic library is very rustic. The video below explains why things like legatos weren't really possible. It's still good for raw and earthy textures, and the Lyre's harmonics patch is quite a distinctive and highly useable tone I haven't heard before.

[GR Baumann]

I sooooo envy these guys. I mean come one, traveling the world, recording instruments and voices, creating a playable instrument from that. What better job can there be?

[wst3]

yeah, it sounds like a lot of work, and a really sweet gig!!

[Guy Rowland]

Voces8 is a little behind schedule, but out now for Christmas



Note - as far as I can tell it's vowel sounds and Mmms, not all the consonants you hear in the video. I'll give it a proper run through tomorrow.

[Guy Rowland]

A brief report on Voces8. I don't know of another virtual choir library that is based around such a small ensemble, and as such it carves out some unique sonic space, The sound is very pleasing - at the moment just the one mic position of course, but Musio have said that the multi-mics should be with us early 2024.

There's ensemble chords, Sopranos, Altos, Tenors and Basses, each of the sections being a pair of singers. There are keyswitch patches for each section, or individual instruments for a single articulation.

The chords are major and minor only, and have a range of about 1 1/2 octaves. Because of the small number of singers I found there were a few intervals which were musically pleasing when playing two notes instead of one - fifths and foruths in particular - that can extend the musical possibilities. The chord sustains are just two dynamics I think, but it is very smooth across the range and the results effective. For the individual sections I think sometimes it is just one dynamic, other times two.

For chords and all sections you get staccatos and sustains for Ah, Mm, Oh and Oo. The chords add long and short crescendos, the sections add legatos. Again because of the small size playing the section sustains polyphonically sounds very natural - triads are just 6 singers not 60 - and the range is typically slightly larger, over 2 octaves in the case of the tenors and basses, though the lowest and highest three notes on these sound stretched to me - useful in a pinch I guess but let the side down a bit. The legato transitions are very well done with a natural glide between the notes that is not overly-obtrusive, and are available for up to an octave in each direction.

Note that currently there is an issue with the audio previews of all the legatos except the sopranos - they are incorrectly playing the sustain previews and sound rubbish, but the instruments themselves are great.

This is a good solid addition to Musio, and exclusive to the platform. I could be wrong, but I think this is the last new instrument that will be included in the Musio 1 permanent license bundle currently on sale at $299, but they have said that all future player feature upgrades such as multi-mic will be included for all Musio 1 owners.

[Lawrence]

Guy-wasn’t that about what you paid for your permanent license?

[Guy Rowland]

Guy-wasn’t that about what you paid for your permanent license?

$499 in my case, Larry.

I'll confess Cinestrings Pro was a big disappointment, but things like this help make up for it.

[Lawrence]

I admit to being somewhat mystified by the math. Maybe I have it wrong-you paid more for an “exclusive” permanent license (only 500 to be sold, or something like that?) compared to what they are NOW selling it for? Or is the present price a yearly subscription?

If it’s the former and I had purchased the earlier deal, I’d be pretty cheesed off.

[Guy Rowland]

I admit to being somewhat mystified by the math. Maybe I have it wrong-you paid more for an “exclusive” permanent license (only 500 to be sold, or something like that?) compared to what they are NOW selling it for? Or is the present price a yearly subscription?

If it’s the former and I had purchased the earlier deal, I’d be pretty cheesed off.

I bought a "lifetime subscription" for $499. This is everything forever. This year they introduced Musio 1 which is a permanent license for all libraries released up to the end of this year (plus ongoing player updates like multi-mic). So they're two different things - in the future there will be a Musio 2, Musio 3 etc with new content and upgrade paths. I'll never need that.

Think of Musio 1 as Komplete, with ongoing new paid versions. Musio subs are regular subs. Musio lifetime subs - which they no longer offer - are the best of all worlds, so am very happy. I instinctively felt that the $499 point really was a rare steal of a deal, and so it is proving (so far). They'd initially said 500 only IIRC but they waived that fairly quickly and dropped the price from $999 to $499 for a period of time - I think those first people have a right to feel annoyed.

It is all still a bit of a gamble. I still can't use Musio in my template as I need to fix the keyswitches to a fixed root note, not currently possible.

[Lawrence]

Got it. Thanks for clarifying, makes more sense now.

[wst3]

In spite of my trepidation I think you are one smart cookie Guy. If (when) Musio succeeds you will truly be in the cat bird's seat! And that is - to me - the most likely scenario. I will buy in when there are a few libraries I "must have", and Voces8 is a great start to luring me in.

[Guy Rowland]

A preview of some coming UX changes



A few other updates came the other day, including the alll-new Forbes Pipe Organ. 36 patches here and it's pretty impressive - it does the huge pipe organ you'd expect, but some of the other tones are welcome too, especially that restrained and reserved tone used in churches a lot (forgive the poor description - you know it when you hear it).

[Guy Rowland]

Gadzooks. $199 for Musio 1 this weekend.

https://musio.com/whats-included/

This is deceptive marketing imo because they don't use their own branding of Musio 1, just Musio - which is the entire catalogue ongoing. This offer is products up to 2023 ONLY, but that's still an incredible deal.

[Pablo Crespo]

So, this is all that is included in that page, in their full versions and perpetual license?
for $199?

[Guy Rowland]

So, this is all that is included in that page, in their full versions and perpetual license?
for $199?

Yes - no new products above this, but all player and instrument updates will be included, inc the long-awaited multi-mics.

[Pablo Crespo]

And how do they compare to the kontakt ones?
I haven’t been paying too much attention to Musio, and only had cinebrass core back in the day

[Guy Rowland]

And how do they compare to the kontakt ones?
I haven’t been paying too much attention to Musio, and only had cinebrass core back in the day

The main omssions are time-stretch or heavily scripted choir patches, and (currently) the multi-mics. Stuff like the hairpin mode is missing but tbh I never used it.

They screwed up a few patches' velocity crossfades - Piano In Blue as I recall was one - but they recently fixed those. Keyswitch implementation is slick, but you can't yet set the root note which for me is a PITA.

In the main I find them perfectly good. If I own the Kontakt version it basically sounds the same. Legatos are playing nicely.

There's a free demo, give it a whirl.