Waves go subscription only (and back again)

[Guy Rowland]

Alas, tis true.

The headlines are - no more permanent licenses, no more WUP, 1 machine per license, 2 subs tiers of $15 and $25 pm. Waves Central now auto-updates as Waves Creative Access. There seems to be some reports that it auto-updates everything to v14, which will be a disaster for anyone still using 32 bit versions potentially.

My advice - still well clear of Waves Central for a few days and let the dust settle. Will update this OP when there’s more info.

FAQ here - https://www.waves.com/support/waves-cre ... -questions

[soundbylaura]

When I saw the news I double-checked that I'm on v14 for everything so I'm silicon-compatible, which I am. Not gonna touch Waves Central. I don't like sub models for things I use all the time or might need to use at any time. The one one that works for me is Creative Cloud.

Really glad I upgraded my Waves last year so I can sit with these for a while until it all shakes out and/or I find replacements.

[Guy Rowland]

I’ve got my main stuff on v14, but a subset on v13 for the MacBookPro. I might have to do some juggling when I eventually update to silicon, I think v13 will work on Windows for many many years to come.

It’s not ideal, but I’ll live. But feels really poor of Waves to give zero warning to sort things like this out. Won’t be throwing anything away, but nothing new from Waves for me.

[Geoff Grace]

I’m mostly on version 12, with newer purchases on 13 and 14. I was waiting to get another Waves Update Plan until I was ready to buy an Apple Silicon Mac.

I agree that it was negligent of Waves to not give us plenty of time to decide how to proceed. While I’m fine for now, I know my Waves days are numbered because I have no interest in subscriptions. I guess I’ll use the money that would have gone to a WUP to buy any plugins I need from other manufacturers to replace the Waves plugins that I don't already have an equivalent for.

I plan to no longer use Waves plugins unless I’m willing to print them as audio files (using AudioSuite, for example), to future proof my sessions. When I’m tempted to reach for a Waves plugin, I will ask myself, “What can I use instead?”

Best,

Geoff

[Guy Rowland]

Someone has set up an online Change petition. Takes under a minute, and you can opt out of the Change newsletter when signing.

https://chng.it/2GMzkj47Wh

Retaining the ability to get current for permanent license-holders is essential imo. Avid saw sense in the end after all, after mass public pressure.

[Guy Rowland]

One other course of action for those looking for the best place to wield their pitchforks - there is an active thread on this at the Waves forum. You don't need to register there if you are already a Waves customer, your login works. It's quite a spectacular sight to see, a really quite phenomenal mauling. I don't think I've seen a single positive comment - where are the fanboys when you need them?

If you need any further motivation to add your voice to the fray, here's what the chief moderator there wrote 2 hours ago:

Hi Everybody!

Welcome all newcomers to the Waves Forum

My name is Adi and I am a moderator here @ The Waves Forum.

Over the years we received many customer requests to move away from the Waves Update Plan for plugins and bundle updates. Waves Creative Access is the direct response to these requests and provides many additional benefits beyond updates for our customers. The many benefits are listed in the OP above.

We hear the discourse here and want to emphasize a few points:

Waves licenses that you have purchased remain yours. We are not taking them away and will continue to support them.
Moving forward, any new plugins, features, and components will only be added to the subscriptions.
That being said, there is no rush to purchase a subscription until you need a newly released plugin, or to update Waves software to a newer version in order to support a new or updated system.
You can continue to use the plugins and bundle license versions that you own, on systems, operating systems, and host application versions they are compatible with, for as long as needed.

Answers to most questions can be found here:
https://www.waves.com/support/waves-cre ... -questions 2

Any customer who feels wronged can feel free to contact our Inside Sales department 3 to discuss what their options are, we value our customers very much.

We are listening, and appreciate your feedback.

Thread here - https://forum.waves.com/t/introducing-w ... ss/6850/84

If I had to guess I think they will row back on the WUP, but make the terms a little worse so it's even more unattractive. I think they will also row back on capping permanent license-holders at v14. Could be wrong, their suicidal tendencies may be stronger than I imagine, but this response is so (justifiably) overwhelming and their market position so precarious, they would be totally idiotic not to concede something. Avid did, after all.

[soundbylaura]

Not selling individual licenses is a boneheaded move. I wasn't willing to pay $249 own Clarity VX Pro, I'm certainly not going to pay $300 to borrow it.

[Jaap]

I am going to slowly update old projects and find good replacements and leave Waves what it is. A very bad move... I was not already happy with WUP, but as some point I could live with it and specially as windows user there has not been much need for it. I updated the stuff I use from V9/V10 till V14 quite recently so I should be good for a while.
And they can scream at Waves whatever they want that you keep your licenses, but as some point in the future, we are forced to upgrade.
At first I hoped that maybe one month of subscription would then allow me to update and cancel it, but I read that as soon as you cancel, your perpetual license will be put back to the version it was before the subscription. So in the end they force you to keep the sub up.

[Piet De Ridder]

(...) and leave Waves what it is. (...)

I've left Waves behind when I upgraded to my current computer a few months ago. I do miss one or two plugins (from the small handful I had installed) but I can't miss them very much because I don't even recall what I'm missing.

__

[Ashermusic]

I said goodbye to Waves years ago when I bought a UAD card. never regretted it.

[Guy Rowland]

(...) and leave Waves what it is. (...)

I've left Waves behind when I upgraded to my current computer a few months ago. I do miss one or two plugins (from the small handful I had installed) but I can't miss them very much because I don't even recall what I'm missing.

__

There's a fair few I'd miss. Clarity VX Pro, Center and Soundshifter don't have easy replacements, then stuff like L3-16, Submarine, S1, MaxxBass, PS22 and even the humble C1, H-Delay and Renaissance Reverb I'd miss - all have their valued place for me. Unlike many I never bought into the "they're all crap" school of thought, in fact they'd been having something of a renaissance (if you will) in the past couple of years.

What an apalling waste.

[Geoff Grace]

One other course of action for those looking for the best place to wield their pitchforks - there is an active thread on this at the Waves forum. You don't need to register there if you are already a Waves customer, your login works. It's quite a spectacular sight to see, a really quite phenomenal mauling. I don't think I've seen a single positive comment - where are the fanboys when you need them?

If you need any further motivation to add your voice to the fray, here's what the chief moderator there wrote 2 hours ago:

Hi Everybody!

Welcome all newcomers to the Waves Forum

My name is Adi and I am a moderator here @ The Waves Forum.

Over the years we received many customer requests to move away from the Waves Update Plan for plugins and bundle updates. Waves Creative Access is the direct response to these requests and provides many additional benefits beyond updates for our customers. The many benefits are listed in the OP above.

We hear the discourse here and want to emphasize a few points:

Waves licenses that you have purchased remain yours. We are not taking them away and will continue to support them.
Moving forward, any new plugins, features, and components will only be added to the subscriptions.
That being said, there is no rush to purchase a subscription until you need a newly released plugin, or to update Waves software to a newer version in order to support a new or updated system.
You can continue to use the plugins and bundle license versions that you own, on systems, operating systems, and host application versions they are compatible with, for as long as needed.

Answers to most questions can be found here:
https://www.waves.com/support/waves-cre ... -questions 2

Any customer who feels wronged can feel free to contact our Inside Sales department 3 to discuss what their options are, we value our customers very much.

We are listening, and appreciate your feedback.

Thread here - https://forum.waves.com/t/introducing-w ... ss/6850/84

If I had to guess I think they will row back on the WUP, but make the terms a little worse so it's even more unattractive. I think they will also row back on capping permanent license-holders at v14. Could be wrong, their suicidal tendencies may be stronger than I imagine, but this response is so (justifiably) overwhelming and their market position so precarious, they would be totally idiotic not to concede something. Avid did, after all.

Thanks, Guy. I decided to post there, not that I expect to change their minds. I do hope at least to remind them of why subscriptions are not a good fit for the "feast or famine" life of a musician.

Best,

Geoff

[Guy Rowland]

[wst3]

I'm with Jaap... in fact I started the process late last winter, I've been trying to slim down the DAW, plugin processors were the last category.

I am on V14 across the board, so I have some breathing room. And there are only handful or two of plugins that I use regularly:

The sad things is that I've been using them since Native Power Pack 1, and later 2 - they used these awful parallel port dongles. But they were among the best of the best, at least on Windows. Over the years their go-to market strategy just seemed to get worse, largely because they did have to chase the less expensive plugins - all the way to the bottom!

I will miss their metering tools, but I am pretty sure Nugen can replace them.

• Dorrough Stereo - simply the best software meter I've used.
• WLM Plus Loudness Meter - another really helpful meter, but I think I can replace it with one of the Plugin-alliance metering tools.

I am concerned about is their effects - most of these have no direct alternative.

• Brauer Motion
• Doppler
• Doubler
• Enigma
• MetaFilter
• MetaFlanger
• MondoMod
• Morphoder
• SoundShifter
• SuperTap

Which means I need to go figure out how to get similar sounds from other plugins I already own. There are worse things. Between PSP and Soundtoys I hope to replace all of them, it'll just take some time.

And sadly I can't figure out how to replace the F6 Floating EQ, but there has to be a way.

The remaining plugins (about a dozen) which I used a lot have already all been replaced. And in most cases it was less about duplicating the sound as coming up with something new that worked,

Which is how I plan to address the problem of working with older projects.

I am sorry to see them go down the tubes, but I will be removing them and their stupid waveshell very soon!!

[bbunker]

The most interesting thing about this move - trying to distance myself from my initial response of anger, and shouting vulgarity at the computer and off into the ether - is just HOW cataclysmically disliked this is. Most 'controversial' business moves have at least some apologists talking about what they'll get out of the situation. I for the life of me can't find a single post, comment, anything that is vaguely positive about their relationship with this. Which makes me wonder - is the point to literally burn off their entire customer base, and begin anew with people who up to now didn't know what Waves was? I guess I'm a skeptic.

For what it's worth, I sent customer service an email with the subject line of "What in the h*** is wrong with you all?" - no bonus points for guessing my thoughts on what I'll be doing going forward.

In other news, I found that the vegetarian sausages I was going to make a toad-in-the-hole with were used in some other project (a discovery made after the batter was already mixed and resting), so sitting in the oven at this very moment is what I'm going to call a 'filled yorkshire pudding' - to try to convince my wife that it is in fact a Gastropub concoction and not dumping tins of vegetables on top of vegetarian mince followed by Yorkie batter. So - god help us all and wish me luck.

[wst3]

Brilliant Guy, just perfect!

[Lawrence]

I thought it was pretty clever of them to go full EW-everything on sale always, sell tons of products at low prices. It seemed to be working-I bought about ten plugins from them after I thought I was done with the company forever.

This move is too clever by half. I don’t think it will go well.

[lofi]

[Guy Rowland]

Brilliant Guy, just perfect!

I can only claim posting it - the fine work is someone else’s and I sadly don’t know who.

Bbunker - yes it’s quite something to trawl through all those many threads and find not one single positive word, isn’t it? Looks like Waves’ customer service guy bravely pushed forward to face the horde has rapidly retreated. I genuinely cannot think of anything that has gone down this spectacularly badly in our industry. Even Adobe gave a warning. This feels like personal theft, and people are indeed taking it very personally.

Some have suggested this is some great masterplan, and soon Waves will say “we’ve listened, we’re restoring the WUP”. I don’t believe there’s any masterplan - this is a good old fashioned idiotic screw-over. But I do think they’ll pretty soon figure out (if they haven’t already) that they can make a tidy sum by offering the WUP to existing customers for a limited time, especially if sign-ups are are poor as I suspect they will be. No-one will like it but enough people would bite through gritted teeth (er… if that’s possible).

Perhaps with my most optimistic head on, this will serve as an industry-wide warning that going full subs is a dangerous game. When you consider the macro-economics, it’s completely unsustainable, especially in a cost-of-living crisis which sees everyone trying to reduce their monthly outgoings. It’s as you say, Geoff, these subs add up very fast, it’s not just the headline price of one. The sheer arrogance, hubris and contempt shown here is quite breathtaking.

[soundbylaura]

"Command-Z! COMMAND-Z!!!" - Waves

(tl;dr: Waves Announce Reinstatement Of Perpetual And WUP)

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/produc ... al-and-wup

Letter from Meir Shashoua, Waves CTO and Co-Founder – March 29, 2023:

Dear Waves community,

Over the past few days, many of you have expressed concerns about our decision to discontinue perpetual plugin licenses and our move to an exclusive plugin subscription model. I would like to start by apologizing for the frustration we have caused many of you, our loyal customers. We understand that our move was sudden and disruptive, and did not sufficiently take into consideration your needs, wishes, and preferences. We are genuinely sorry for the distress it has caused.

After respectfully listening to your concerns, I want to share with you that we are bringing back the perpetual plugin license model, side-by-side with the new subscriptions. You will again be able to get plugins as perpetual licenses, just as before.

In addition, those of you who already own perpetual licenses will once again be able to update your plugins and receive a second license via the Waves Update Plan—again, just as before. This option, too, will be available alongside and independently of the subscription program.

We are currently putting all our efforts into making perpetual licenses available to you again, as quickly as possible. In the meantime, you can keep-up-date on this webpage, where we will post real-time updates as they are available.

I would like you to know that we are committed to you, our users. We listened to your feedback, and we will continue to listen to you. Waves is a company filled with users and creators, just like you, and we are all as passionate about the products as you are. With this in mind, we will strive to find the way to make things right by you, and hopefully regain your trust.

Thank you for your feedback and continued support—I wish you all the best,

Meir Shashoua
CTO and Co-Founder
Waves Audio

[Lawrence]

Power to the people!

[soundbylaura]

They should extend everyone's WUP for a year for all the trouble.

[GR Baumann]

Just what Adobe did... at the start... then ditched perpetual later down the road.

[Guy Rowland]

Power to the people!

Quite. First Israel, now Waves.

I did post earlier on KVR that I thought they’d try and stick it out for a while, then inevitably backtrack. Some credit I guess that they realised it just wasn’t sustainable quicker than I thought. But man, how did they think it was ever going to go any other way?

The next question is - have they so irretrievably damaged the company that they won’t be able to pull out of it?

But let’s enjoy the moment. I think this might put to bed once and for all the notion that everything is leading inexorably to subs only. It never made sense to me.

Let’s see another company try it now.

[Tanuj Tiku]

Not surprised with the sudden shift and I don’t like their business practices.

I only bought a few waves plug-ins some years ago and had since decided never to buy them again because of license issues, pricing disasters all over the place and paid upgrades for plugins that were in fact not upgraded anyway.

This is the kind of predatory practice that I hate but glad to hear they have listened to their users for now.