Spectrasonics: Omnisphere 2.8 and Sonic Extensions

[Tobias Escher]

I have Stylus and Omni, but have not reached for either for years - also at least partly due to the very weird license terms and just general interactions with the company.
I'm sure they mean well, but I have found them not very approachable with questions and their reps come across often as quite elitist, actively demeaning others.

[Guy Rowland]

Anders - at first sight that's an awful reply, but I'm a little confused as to what you wrote... you said you didn't use it any more? If so I guess the reply kinda makes sense. But it's still obviously poor he didn't engage with the issue.

Maybe I was an outlier. In general, Spectrasonics do things their way, and no petitioning or reasoning affects that. I think some of the results we all love come from that attitude, so I'm not totally down on it. But things like this, or the crazy categorisation system, will forever irk. It just seems totally unnecessary.

I do have one new irk which doesn't affect me but does affect others, and it is one specific of the pricing for these extensions. They set the price and model how they see fit of course. Fine. But when I thought about it, the idea that you only get discounts if you buy TOGETHER felt ethically dubious to me. If you have disposable income - you're fine. Make your decision and buy. If cash is hard to come buy however, you are penalised. No, you can't buy one when you can afford that, and then a 2nd and start getting the discount. Good for the rich, bad for the poor, and the implied solution of going into credit makes me queasy. (and Tobias, this doesn't help the elitist tag, does it?)

This feels, in a word, tawdry. C'mon guys, just have it based on what you own.

[lofi]

@Jaap.
So one is allowed to use omnisphere’s modulation and fx?

@Guy.
Yes I told him that I never have used omnisphere for Sound Design. The topic of my emails and text in previous messages where about Sound Design for corporate clients and not about music or film/tv-audio.

Enough about the downs.
I have nothing to add.
Let’s go OT

/Anders

[Tobias Escher]

haha, yeah, that doesn't really help the Elitist tag, indeed
Though I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they genuinely do not see the issue or that it is not an issue for them.
They might be in the royalties/passive income bracket that they really think "if you want all 4, you buy all 4, if you don't want all 4, you'll never buy the ones you don't want anyway" and really do not expect anyone to get one today, another in a few weeks, or so.

Even OT has fallen prey to that thinking with the Berlin Woodwinds Revive crossgrade back in 2017. We genuinely did not expect anyone to want to buy it after the intrp period. The thinking was "the BWW customers who want Revive will buy it immediately, the ones who are not interested will never buy it". It was such a GIANT amount of content at a really good price, I would have never expected anyone to want to get it years later. People did.

Maybe they even only WANT the AAA people for whom the money is but petty cash. Not in a malicious way, but simply choosing the target audience. It is not impossible that they don't want the "middle ground" or even n00bs (support-intensive, have actual usabiity requests, etc..) and focus on the AAA who'll gladly pay 1000 bucks if it saves them 10 minutes of time, as well as the pure hobbyists that are also a big target of the workstation/arranger market. As sterotypical as it sounds, these people are a delight to work with. They really are.

[Guy Rowland]

You know Tobias, I hadn't thought of it that way and it has the ring of truth to it.

[Tobias Escher]

I have no idea about their company structure. Eric probably has other income that trumps the Spectrasonics income a thousandfold.
The rest might or might not be the same. If they don't have tons of full-time employees, don't have company locations, the company might have minimal running expenses. Videos can be shot in Eric's personal studio, so production value is super high with zero expenses. Kinda like a huge YT channel like LTT needs to invest tons of money into sets and props, just to keep production values high, which used to be "free" when they were shooting in Linus's house (because there you already have a kitchen, furniture, lights...).

Spectrasonics might simply not need to maximize money on every product to survive and might willingly keep the userbase as low as possible to avoid for example support staff.

Sounds arrogant, but I do the same with my side gigs. There's some kinds of clients I will simply not take on, because it is hours of work, half an hour of which will actually be paid, and then I'll still get complaints that the neighbour kid will do it for half. Then by all means pick the kid next door.

Best example is playing weddings (I'm a church organist). I do play weddings, but only close by, and as soon a there's a singer involved, I'm out. It's always the same - they haggle the price down, but want rehearsals with the singer, who has obviously never sung live in her life, ever, and then complain when the singer sucks, despite hiring her themselves.
And of course they want Viva la vida, that tupid Cohen Hallelujah and other atrocities played. Then hire a band. That's not organ music and is really, really out of place in a church setting.

[Arcana]

While I was initially underwhelmed by the amount of patches you get for the price, it appears that the scenes makes up for that, as they provide quite a lot of variety. I thought scenes were some minute differences but that doesn't appear to the case at all.

My main issue - for me - is that Spectrasonics has taken 13 years since v. 1 was released to put these out.
In the meantime I've picked up tons of soundsets like Undercurrents; The Unfinished for example.
Nylon sky can be covered by a lot of Orangetree , Ample sound etc.
Seismic Shock seems a bit of an 'all things EDM', and for someone heavily invested into the Avenger eco system, it just comes across a bit too broad.
Unclean machine sounds great, but as one reviewer said, if you have RC-20, you can slam that on top of just about any preset and get fairly close.
So yeah, not for me.

[soundbylaura]

The more I think about that "standing on the shoulder of other sound designers" garbage, the angrier I get.

No, man, I've got 150 sounds to create by the end of the week, I want to push a few buttons and make noises, stop being an elitist gatekeeping tool and approve my request, I've got real-world sound designer work to do.

(is what I say in my head)

[kpc]

I think Tobias is on to it - I think Spectrasonics knows how they want as customers, and are not afraid to blow a sale to someone not fitting thier description. And like Tobias, I do the same thing with weddings. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

I don't necessarily agree how they have in the past and currently communicate that philosophy, but Eric has never asked my advice on this

I can only speak for myself, and I appreciate all the comments given here. I don't do any sound design work as discussed. But I have heard them proudly announce Omni being used in films, and you know they deliver stems to the mixer. As Guy said, that is different from what is being discussed here.

I was actually going to backtrack a bit on my last statement and pickup the one expansion. But I think my dollars are better spent on finally getting Zebra.

[lofi]

...I think my dollars are better spent on finally getting Zebra.

You should get it.
It's an amazing piece of software.
If you do I really recommend picking up some of Matt "The Unfinished" or/and Jaap "Triple Spiral Audio" patches.
They are amazing and was, for me, a great way into learning to program Zebra.

OT
The two mention above have some great patches for omni that I also would recommend

/Anders

[kpc]

Thanks Anders,

I have a number of Matt’s sets and at least one of Jaap’s for Omni. Was looking today at Matt’s Zebra offerings. /hijack

[wst3]

let me throw in my two cents...

First, Eric hasn't asked my opinion either, and I am not inclined to tell him how to run his business. I am also not inclined, at least for now, to purchase any of the expansions - they just don't intrigue me, simple as that. There are probably some great sounds packed away in there but until I have a reason to use them, or hit the lottery, I'll pass.

I do not worry about the license agreement - I think it is poorly written, and I suspect difficult to defend, but then he probably has better access to better legal representation than most of us<G>. So he'd probably win by default. But I do my best to honor it. Fair is fair.

I think Tobias made a very interesting observation - if I had a software company and I could price my offerings such that newbies would not be my customers I'd save a ton on support. Would it work out as a business plan in the long run? We'll have to ask Eric later<G>. But based on the success of Spectrasonics thus far I suspect it works - at least for them.

The observation about OT was equally interesting. I am one of those that could not quite get it together to purchase the Woodwinds Revive nor the recent Strings offerings, and I have no idea if I will purchase either one off sale, but probably not. Pity!

Spectrasonics is the odd duck on the marketplace. They take their time with updates and new products, and I mean take their time. They don't offer discounts. And their prices are not for the weak of heart. And yet there are still here, and still (we assume) selling products.

I applaud them for sticking to their guns on their pricing. Really I do. And I am impressed with the overall quality of the products - perhaps that's why they take so long to see the light of day?

Are they arrogant? Or just confident?

Not for me to say!

[Lawrence]

As a loyalty discount customer, Omni was ridiculously cheap, as was Trilian. I was an owner of Atmosphere, Trilian and Stylus RMX. The transition to Omni and Trilian were seamless and very inexpensive.

I’m still on Omni 1 though I know that 2 has great content. Still, I’ve never even HEARD all the patches from Omni 1 much less used them. In a way, Eric might have made a small mistake there-SO much native content included.

I still use all three frequently.

That sound design policy is pretty wack-can’t speak to it. I’ll just leave it at the fact the Spectra has always provided great products to me.

[Guy Rowland]

The more I think about that "standing on the shoulder of other sound designers" garbage, the angrier I get.

No, man, I've got 150 sounds to create by the end of the week, I want to push a few buttons and make noises, stop being an elitist gatekeeping tool and approve my request, I've got real-world sound designer work to do.

(is what I say in my head)

I may be misunderstanding you Laura, but I don't think this is what is being discussed. No-one is suggesting using Omni to create new sound effects for commercial release, clearly out of scope for an EULA. Rather using their own sound design patches as part of your, well, sound design on a production. That's the only quibble here.

[soundbylaura]

The more I think about that "standing on the shoulder of other sound designers" garbage, the angrier I get.

No, man, I've got 150 sounds to create by the end of the week, I want to push a few buttons and make noises, stop being an elitist gatekeeping tool and approve my request, I've got real-world sound designer work to do.

(is what I say in my head)

I may be misunderstanding you Laura, but I don't think this is what is being discussed. No-one is suggesting using Omni to create new sound effects for commercial release, clearly out of scope for an EULA. Rather using their own sound design patches as part of your, well, sound design on a production. That's the only quibble here.

Yes, you misunderstand. I'm talking about creating sound effects for (in this case) video games using a combination of variety of sound sources (recorded by me, libraries I've purchased, some/all of those processed via effects, etc).

[Geoff Grace]

This has been a very interesting conversation to follow, regarding the expansions, what constitutes sound design, what types of customers Spectrasonics (and others) are looking for, and what kinds of competition there are for Omnisphere and these expansions.

On the last topic, my perspective is that there is indeed stiff competition for all of these releases. There are guitar libraries that have been more deeply sampled than Nylon, for instance. Nonetheless, it’s the combination of sampling, synthesis, and effects contained within Omnisphere that make it hard to beat. Add Eric’s sound design (there’s that phrase again) aesthetic to that platform, and you have a sonic signature that can be very pleasing to many of us. Sticking with Nylon as an example, it’s not the sampling quality that speaks to me as much as the new effects coupled with it. That sound source with those effects is very compelling to my ears; and if I want to take that sound further, or steer it in another direction, Omnisphere likely has the tools I need to do so with a powerful synthesis engine and effects that rival top-notch, dedicated plugins.

Best,

Geoff

[Guy Rowland]

Yes, you misunderstand. I'm talking about creating sound effects for (in this case) video games using a combination of variety of sound sources (recorded by me, libraries I've purchased, some/all of those processed via effects, etc).

Got you know, thanks Laura. Yeah. They view "sound design" in terms of a 30-strong audio team on a feature film, a wonderful exploratory creative process. Most of us encounter "sound design" as one person having to deliver a ton of elements for use in one production under a very tight deadline.

Another side of all this is how any of it is policed. If someone resold any of their content as sound effects, it's a clear breach and could be actioned upon legally. Buried in a production's soundtrack layered with many other elements from score and sound design - well.

None of this helps us I realise. I think everyone here wants to do the right thing, but it's very hard when the rules make such little sense. And when they sell us all these wonderful tools and then make us feel like the bad guys for trying to use them, it can be exasperating.

Geoff, agree with your post. This is the good part of their collective thinking - I suppose it can be summed up as "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts". You can break it down and be quite dismissive - that acoustic guitar is a long way from the final word in such libraries. Those front panel controls - they're just marcos. The new effects - yeah I have lovely reverbs in my DAW. New patches - yeah, I can make new patches any time I want. But sit in front of it as I did yesterday and spend some time with just one patch, exploring all the possibilities so fast, so musically and with so many pleasing and inspirational results - well that's something quite different. And that speaks to the thousands of hours that have gone into it from such a talented pool of people, the stuff you can't put down on a bullet list. That's the Spectrasonics DNA so many of us love.

[Geoff Grace]

Nice!



Best,

Geoff

[Muziksculp]

Hi,

I purchased the new Undercurrent Extension for Omnisphere a couple days ago.

I'm having very high-CPU issues when using this extension. But not when using the other patches, or content in Omnisphere, all works fine.

If anyone has this Extension, and is a Studio One Pro 5.4.1 users (Windows 10), I would appreciate it if you can let me know if you have this super high CPU issue when using the Underccurent Extension.

I already emailed Spectrasonics Tech-Support yesterday, so I'm looking forward to a reply from them next week. This is the first time I had to reach out to their Tech-Support. Never had any issues with Omnisphere.

Thanks,
Muziksculp

[Guy Rowland]

Just reiterate here - I don't have these issues in Cubase or Standalone, it looks like it is somehow specific to Studio One. Also the test patch from Undercurrent is called Memory Waves.

[Jaap]

Hi,

I purchased the new Undercurrent Extension for Omnisphere a couple days ago.

I'm having very high-CPU issues when using this extension. But not when using the other patches, or content in Omnisphere, all works fine.

If anyone has this Extension, and is a Studio One Pro 5.4.1 users (Windows 10), I would appreciate it if you can let me know if you have this super high CPU issue when using the Underccurent Extension.

I already emailed Spectrasonics Tech-Support yesterday, so I'm looking forward to a reply from them next week. This is the first time I had to reach out to their Tech-Support. Never had any issues with Omnisphere.

Thanks,
Muziksculp

I have used Undercurrent the last week quite extensively on a project (not sound design but for a music production job) and I didn't ran into any problem with it. It's behaving normally like Omnisphere also does. This is in Nuendo 11

I have Studio One, but have not updated it on my main workstation and am still on 5.1 and did a quick test there and also no problem. As I have a stable working version now that I am using for a specific project I am not in the mood to update. But on 5.1 it's working like it does in Nuendo.

[Muziksculp]

Hi,

I purchased the new Undercurrent Extension for Omnisphere a couple days ago.

I'm having very high-CPU issues when using this extension. But not when using the other patches, or content in Omnisphere, all works fine.

If anyone has this Extension, and is a Studio One Pro 5.4.1 users (Windows 10), I would appreciate it if you can let me know if you have this super high CPU issue when using the Underccurent Extension.

I already emailed Spectrasonics Tech-Support yesterday, so I'm looking forward to a reply from them next week. This is the first time I had to reach out to their Tech-Support. Never had any issues with Omnisphere.

Thanks,
Muziksculp

I have used Undercurrent the last week quite extensively on a project (not sound design but for a music production job) and I didn't ran into any problem with it. It's behaving normally like Omnisphere also does. This is in Nuendo 11

I have Studio One, but have not updated it on my main workstation and am still on 5.1 and did a quick test there and also no problem. As I have a stable working version now that I am using for a specific project I am not in the mood to update. But on 5.1 it's working like it does in Nuendo.

Hi Jaap,

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm assuming you are on Windows 10. I tested with Studio One Pro 5.1, same problem. Very high CPU when using Undercurrent Extension.

I will wait to hear from Spectrasonics tech. support.

[Jaap]

Ah yes forgot to mention indeed that I am indeed on Windows 10.

[Jason from RMS]

I am thinking of getting Undercurrents. Of all the extensions the fx and overall content seem very true to Omnisphere DNA. Any regrets picking that one?

[Guy Rowland]

I am thinking of getting Undercurrents. Of all the extensions the fx and overall content seem very true to Omnisphere DNA. Any regrets picking that one?

Hello Jason! What's the opposite of a regret? Of them all, Undercurrent is still my favourite by some way. In general I'm a happy camper a few weeks on, although Seismic Shock and especially Unclean Machine haven't seen too much action here to date. I'm sure their time will come.