Cinematic Studio Woodwinds

[wst3]

I got to spend some time with CSW yesterday. My first impressions were similar to others:
- the sound is really good, all the instruments sound like themselves! And they sound great as-is, add a little reverb and they sound even better.
- the sampling was done extremely well, and QC did an excellent job.
- the legato is really pretty, and fairly easy to use once you get the hang of it.
- the vibrato is implemented well, I really like that it stays out of the way for shorter notes.
- the blend between CSW, CSB, CSS, and CSSS is remarkable.
- the blend with Cinesamples winds, brass, and strings is really cool. It becomes a third library, if that makes sense. The only thing that I need to really work on is adding things like the Descant Horn and Sonore to CSB, the sonic differences were kind of jarring.
- I think they will blend well with the BBC Orchestra (core edition). I'm not sure why I'd do that, but I will be giving it a try later today.

All in all a really well done library, and the combination of CSS, CSSS, CSB, and CSW will be a potent tool.

I'm sitting here trying to think of anything that bothered me during my first pass, and so far I can't think of anything. I'm not sure that has ever happened to me, but I'm sure it has.

[woodrose]

- the blend with Cinesamples winds, brass, and strings is really cool. It becomes a third library, if that makes sense. The only thing that I need to really work on is adding things like the Descant Horn and Sonore to CSB, the sonic differences were kind of jarring.

It's really nice to see someone else using CSW in tandem with the Cinesamples stuff.
I had already planned on doing so prior to my purchase, and was pleasantly surprised to hear it working so well when I first took CSW for a spin. The legato delay in CineWinds Core (not Pro) is practically identical to CSW.

[Luciano Storti]

I agree with all the positive comments after spending a couple of hours integrating them into a template and now using them on a cue. There are a few spots where my eyebrow was raised (the Flute has a slight tuning issue in its lowest register, lowest dynamic layer, and some of the dynamic layer transitions are very audible in most instruments when soloed) but nothing to take away at all from the wonderful execution. Just needs care when programming. As Linos mentions above, the Oboe and English Horn finally have the tone I was seeking: I am particularly happy with the English Horn. So happy I get to use them today!

[trumpoz]

I've only just listened to the demos..... these sound beautiful.

I wish I could justify buying the Cinematic Studio Series.

[wst3]

Another observation - these work with every reverb I own. It seems nearly impossible to overdo it (well, you can still overdo it.) I've tried Breeze2 with Precendence, Valhalla VintageVerb, UA Lexi 224 and 480, UA Capital Chambers, Exponential Audio Nimbus and R4, and of course the Plate 140. They all work well with these instruments.

The really interesting part, for me, is that they work well in UA Ocean Way Studios, a plugin that has not worked well for me with sample libraries. Now I need to go back and see if the same is true for the other Cinematic Studio libraries.

[Ashermusic]

Downloading now.

[Ashermusic]

There are some bugs that they are aware of, and no ensemble patch yet, but man, these just sound lovely!

[tack]

Bill, can you elaborate more on what you mean about different reverb not working well with different libraries? Ideally with some audio examples?

[wst3]

HI Jason - I'm not sure I can, but I will try.

A long time ago, in a place far away, the rule of thumb during mixdown was to turn the reverb send (we usually had only one) up till it sounded stupid and then back off ever so slightly, and listen again. Very often that which sounded awful sounded much better on subsequent passes. I think it has to do with the fact that most of us here the tracks over and over during the tracking process, so we have a certain imprint on our ears. It is tough to get rid of that.

In modern times I have dozens of choices of reverb, ranging from chambers to plates to halls to imaginary spaces, executed algorithmically or via convolution. It's a lot of choices, and some forms of reverb seem to work better on some sources, or in some settings.

The one that comes immediately to mind is the UA Ocean Way Studios. It isn't exactly a reverb, but it is like a reverb, and that is how I think of it.

This thing is absolutely brilliant when it works. I use it all the time on live tracks and it never disappoints. It doesn't even take any skill to make it work<G>. And it works in concert with other reverb plugins. I almost always use it in concert with the UA Plate 140 and lately the UA Capital Chambers, but I also use it with Breeze2, Valhalla Vintage Verb, R4 and Nimbus, and even hardware emulations like the Lexi 224 and 480, or the Bricasti.

When I try the same things with sample libraries it has always been disappointing. (Jay and I have hashed this out many times).

For a while I thought it was me, then I thought it was just the nature of the room, or the plugin, and then I thought it was me again<G>.

Now I am all but convinced that it is me!

I was never able to get a pleasing effect with any of the Cinematic Studio Series libraries and Ocean Way Studios. They always sounded muddy or phony or something.

With CSW I like the effect. And I can use it in conjunction with other reverb plugins, and I can get pretty crazy. Eventually I turn the tracks into mud, but it takes some effort. The only combination that I have not been happy with, so far, is Ocean Way Studios in "remic" mode as an insert along with Breeze2 and Precedence, all of which feeds the Capital Chamber and the Plate 140 as effects sends. No matter how I arrange them I just can not get it to sound good. Take away Breeze2 and Precedence and things start to work again.

In contrast, I can use the Breeze2/Precedence combo on other sampled instruments and it works pretty well. I often need to supplement the reverb with other plugins further downstream, but that just seems to be what works for me these days.

I will try to put together examples of all of these combinations later today. Hopefully some of this makes sense.

[Ashermusic]

I am, as is well known, a massive Hollywood Orchestra guy and looking forward to HO Opus, but I find it hard to believe that I will like the woodwinds a la carte as much as I like these. They are just gorgeous and I can probably write 90% of what I want just using the marcato legato, triggering the spiccato overlay on and off as desired.

It is, of course, like the rest of the series more wet than dry, but I can adapt.

[marclawsonmusic]

There were some comments about the library being out-of-tune on vi-control.

Have any of you noticed tuning problems with this library?

[Luciano Storti]

There were some comments about the library being out-of-tune on vi-control.

Have any of you noticed tuning problems with this library?

Yes, most definitely. If you listen to the instruments in isolation you notice it right away. But in the context of a full orchestral piece, while I can still hear it to some extent, it doesn't bother me almost at all. For instance, pairing the Bass Clarinet with the low Strings, the detuning makes the whole things sound larger by a degree. At least this is true for me. So I've decided to ignore it and just write, write, write, knowing that it will be updated eventually. Really, it has been working very well in my template, paired with the rest of the CSS orchestra.

[marclawsonmusic]

Thanks, Luke!

[Luciano Storti]

Sure thing!

[Ashermusic]

+1 Luke.

[Luciano Storti]

Oh boy, it's just too much fun working with CSW to not post something. I've been writing purely orchestral pieces lately and replacing VSL SE Winds with CSW has been liberating. Now that we have Strings (+ Solos), Brass and Winds and Piano, my workflow has definitely improved, and making things sound coherent is just that bit easier and faster. Still holding out for Perc and hopefully a Harp.

This is almost entirely Cinematic Studio Series, with True Strike for Perc.

Cracks In The Timeline

[Guy Rowland]

Very nice, Luke! The winds certainly shine, the brass sounds great too. (While you wait for CSP, my only vote is less triangle!)

[Luciano Storti]

Ha ha! Thanks Guy, duly noted. I have a feeling I’ll be thinking of you now every time I reach for a triangle! There’s always cowbell.

[marclawsonmusic]

Sounds great!

[Luciano Storti]

Thanks! Some things in the mix could be a little clearer, but the point is that working with the series is now as consistent as one could hope for.

[Ashermusic]

I have been so out of things dealing with my 98 year old father. Did they ever release an update to fix some of the issues they know about?

[Luciano Storti]

No update yet, Jay. Hope your dad is ok.

[mcalis]

I'm eagerly waiting for it too now that the honeymoon is over

The library can be used effectively in its current state, but it could be better in some areas. I sincerely hope everything will be raised to the standard that the flute and oboes set, because those really are the standouts of the library in my opinion. For example, the clarinets play much more sluggishly in comparison. Cory Pelizarri (if that's how you write his name, I always forget) made some very good observations about the library and pointed to the releases on, for example, the clarinet being much longer when going from one note to another which gives a kind of blurred effect. It's great for slow-moving stuff, but when you want to go a little faster it quickly becomes a mess. The flutes and oboes don't have this issue and seem edited much more tightly.

I'm afraid there isn't much to be done about the tone of the bassoon shorts, which I find to be particularly unpleasing and honky, but even if I have to discount the bassoon entirely, it's still a great value library. Just a bit less of a homerun than CSB and CSS were IMO.