Red Room Gypsy Fiddle

[Guy Rowland]

Sounds possibly even more amazing than their others. Note the 5gb RAM size though!

Price is $89, but existing owners get a $10 discount on each other fiddle they own. I've bought, but currently my redeem code isn't working, so can't provide any first hand feedback yet.

[Piet De Ridder]

Blimey, this sounds good. I'm in too.

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[Piet De Ridder]

Guy, if you're logged in at Red Room Audio and you've registered your previous purchases, the $10 (per library) gets automatically subtracted from the Gypsy purchase at checkout. At least, that's how it went just now for me. I have the Bluegrass and the Celtic, which meant a $20 reduction on the Gypsy price.
I can't believe I just bought what sounds like an exceptional violin library for a mere 60,5 euros ...

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[Guy Rowland]

Piet - yes I found the same thing, with the same reaction

Download sorted. My update of Pulse, the downloader Red Room use, didn't install properly. I manually stopped all the instances of my old version in Windows Task Manager, re-installed it and then made sure I was running the new version, and then the redeem code worked. Downloading very quick too. Weird for the size on disk of this instrument to be smaller than the RAM footprint when loaded! 4gb vs 5, or thereabouts.

It sounds and plays extremely well. As is obvious from the video, you can get very forensic with bow directions, string selections etc but the auto options are just great. Legato is very good, and all the many articulations and ornaments are seamless by and large. The phrases are temptingly fabulous, and voluminous. Adding in the odd virtuoso flourish or ending is highly doable (alongside subtleties of knocks and scrapes). There's no set of keys to set your root note, but the Tone slider is fixable for each single phrase, so you can do it that way.

One small gripe - I'd like an indication of what articulation is playing / is set to play next at all times, as it is they only light when playing. Also I wish they'd been able to fit them all on the super-wide Kontakt UI, not over two pages.

The biggest single drawback to be aware of I'd say is that CC1 is essentially just a volume control. Good I guess that there's no phasey crossfades, but less good that there's no variation at all, even a LPF. I guess this style isn't one for being shy and retiring, so there is that - it'll work best for full-on foreground stomps.

But I'd say for the price they've knocked it out of the park once again, and I think the level of customisation and sheer range of techniques is probably their best yet.

[EvilDragon]

Weird for the size on disk of this instrument to be smaller than the RAM footprint when loaded! 4gb vs 5, or thereabouts.

Kontakt instruments don't load only samples, there are a bunch of other things requiring memory (individual zones, groups, any loaded effect, Group FX are polyphonic so their memory usage depends on max polyphony). This is called voice memory and you have that listed in Expert->Engine tab.

Also Time Machine Pro requires a bit more memory for its own thing, rather than just loading the whole sample to be loaded - and as you can see there are a LOT of articulations here that can be speed adjusted, which requires Time Machine Pro.

One small gripe - I'd like an indication of what articulation is playing / is set to play next at all times, as it is they only light when playing.

This is unfortunately not possible with TACT articulation management system, because which exact articulation is going to be played is only evaluated at note press - only then it is entirely known which one will be triggered, based on triggering rules.

Also I wish they'd been able to fit them all on the super-wide Kontakt UI, not over two pages.

It would very likely look way too busy then. I already feel it's a bit busy as is (I assume you're talking about Main page).

The biggest single drawback to be aware of I'd say is that CC1 is essentially just a volume control. Good I guess that there's no phasey crossfades, but less good that there's no variation at all, even a LPF. I guess this style isn't one for being shy and retiring, so there is that - it'll work best for full-on foreground stomps.

Yep that's pretty much the reason.

[Guy Rowland]

Cheers Mario - though I thought the reported memory at the top was purely sample RAM only, and all the other stuff used by the engine wasn't visible there?

I think with instruments like these, it might be best to have them as a standalone instance, then just freeze them once you're happy. It's arguably a bit of a luxury to have everything always playing in real time, and not strictly necessary. It's very quick to unfreeze should you need to tweak after all. Better to have something that's great to work with (like this is) and freeze rather than something that's clumsy or inelegant that uses less resources.

[EvilDragon]

Right. It's also good to know which articulations you need in advance (if at all possible) then purge the rest.

[Lawrence]

Piet (or anyone who has them) do the Celtic and the Bluegrass measure up to the Gypsy? I remember being disappointed by the demos at the time. Any user demos?

[Piet De Ridder]

Haven’t had time yet to get thoroughly acquainted with the Gypsy, but comparing it with the two previous ones during a brief session this morning, I would cautiously say they’re all three very similar performance- and quality-wise. They have more or less the same strengths and the same weaknesses, I find.

In the latter category, one of the more frustrating aspects of these libraries, to me, remains the fact that the realism of the ornamentations and idiomatic articulations is such that it somehow brings out the artificiality of combining these various bowings into a single coherent performance. I mean, the high degree of believability in the flourishes and characteristic bowings is something which I often find difficult to continue, or uphold, in the more regular playing.

And one could, I suppose, wish for more dynamic timbral expression — the gently whispering soft side of the violin, for example, is in all three libraries a bit neglected, I find — plus, as I also mentioned at the time when the Celtic and Bluegrass were released, I really don’t understand why pitch-bend control is completely absent in libraries which aim to capture a musical idiom in which the expressive bending of pitches is so typical and essential.
(Surely, it can’t be too much of a problem to fit the Sustain articulation with some pitchbend controlability?)

That said, these are, in my opinion, three remarkable violin/fiddle libraries. Not perfect of course, not the final word or even the penultimate one, but certainly as good as the scope and limitations inherent to these type of products, allows for. And if you intend, or have to do something in the styles covered by these instruments, I can't really see any alternative that matches these. (The Bolder Fiddle has appeal but is also the cause of much head-scratching and frustration, I found.)

I wish I could post something, but I haven’t gotten around to finish what I started sometime ago: a version of “The Fly and Dodger” (my favourite Celtic tune; check the YouTube clip below: play loud, close your eyes and let its utter gorgeousness envelop you) with the Red Room Audio violins. If I can tear myself away from my web-work one of these days, maybe I’ll have another go.



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[Guy Rowland]

This one of mine might be one of the disappointing user demos you were thinking of, Larry - https://www.dropbox.com/s/2yg971da30mqc ... D.wav?dl=0

[wst3]

I like the demos of all three Traveler fiddles, I don't (at this exact moment) have use for a gypsy fiddle, but I do need both bluegrass and celtic styles, and I keep looking at these. And so far I keep not buying them<G>!

I have the Bolder Sounds Fiddle. I love the sound, for the most part, and it fits nicely into both bluegrass and celtic styles, nicely, but not fantastically, at least under my fingers. I recently picked up the Taylor Davis fiddle and it fits really well into pop oriented tracks, but alas not so well in bluegrass or celtic.

Oddly enough (Larry may choose to disagree) the best sounding/most convincing fiddle library I've used is the now ancient Garritan Strad. But it is tons of work to get it sounding just right, and I have to re-learn it every time I try to use it. Or maybe my standards were not quite so high way back when?

For now I think I will continue to work with Bolder Sound Fiddle for my celtic and bluegrass needs, unless someone has had an "aha" moment about the Traveler Series.

Or maybe I've just become too cheap???

[Lawrence]

Bill, you disremember-I’m STILL using the Garritan for bluegrass and hot jazz-and it’s a huge PITA, so I’d love a replacement.

The new Gypsy sounds great, but I’m looking for bluegrass and or Celtic.

(I’ve edited this post and I’m about to strangle autocorrect.)

[Lawrence]

This one of mine might be one of the disappointing user demos you were thinking of, Larry - https://www.dropbox.com/s/2yg971da30mqc ... D.wav?dl=0

I hadn’t heard it, Guy, and though it sounds perfectly fine, it doesn’t drag me off the Strad. (Which one we’re ya using, btw?)

What had bothered me about user demos at the time was a certain lack of fluidity that I felt I was hearing. The Gypsy sounds better to me.

[Muziksculp]

I don't have any of these Red Room Fiddles. They all sound great.

From the three available fiddle options, (Bluegrass, Celitic, Gypsy). Which one would you think is the most useful to have if you had to choose one of the three, as a general use fiddle instrument. Less specialized genre wise, but could be used for multiple musical applications/scenarios ?

[Guy Rowland]

Larry - that's the Celtic Fiddle.

Muziksculp - I honestly don't know. The timbres all vary, as do the ornaments which is typically what gives an ethnic style is flavour. If you want vaguely folksy rustic, then Celtic would be the least appropriate perhaps as to my ears its particularly distinctive. Bluegrass is more generic but of the three I think I might turn to it less often than the other two which just tend to shine that bit more. Next time I use one in anger I must remember to post back here - really its only when you're writing something specific you get an idea of the limitations, general noodling can be deceptive.

[wst3]

Bill, you disremember-I’m STILL using the Garritan for bluegrass and hot jazz-and it’s a huge PITA, so I’d love a replacement.

OK, my bad. I knew you and I were in the minority using Strad, I thought you had left the club already<G>. Not sure if you are aware, or if I am imagining things, but I recently re-installed Kontakt Player 2 for Strad and Gofriller. Still not sure there is much of a difference between 2 and 6 with respect to these libraries, but maybe a simpler version of Kontakt can reduce the PITA factor?

The new Gypsy sounds great, but I’m looking for bluegrass and or Celtic.

Same here, my priority order would be:
1) one lib fits all
2) Bluegrass
3) Celtic
4) jazz/rock - which pretty much requires an electric violin
5) Gypsy Jazz

Pity, since I think the Traveler Gypsy sounds a little more fluid than the other two - that could also be folks getting the hang of it after using all three?

(I’ve edited this post and I’m about to strangle autocorrect.)

You and most of the rest of us!