Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra

[playz123]

Sadly I am simply not enamored with the Spitfire player yet, and because of libraries like the Whitacre Choir and the Labs, I’ve still had to use it more than I would like. To me, it just feels underdeveloped yet, and sometimes even the output levels aren’t sufficient, especially with some softer articulations. In fairness, Spitfire hasn’t been developing their player for as long as NI has worked on Kontakt, but one still can’t ignore the fact that Spitfire has a long way to go to catch up.

As for Spitfire’s love for their homeland, well I really have no problem with it. But with a last name like Lancaster, I guess one might expect me to say that, even though my ancestors came to Canada from England over 200 years ago! Regardless, some of us here in the “colonies” still feel a strong attachment to ‘Queen and country’ on occasion. “Rule Britannia”....eh? Having said that, I also don’t care very much about what country or developer a library comes from if it’s a good product.

[Ashermusic]

Well ever since The Beatles there are lots and lots of Americans who are Anglophiles and Diana and Downtown Abbey have increased the number. Brexit hasn’t tarnished it much...yet.

[Linos]

Spitfire published a page where they explain the differences between their Symphonic Orchestra line, and the BBC SO library:

https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en ... fferences-

The sound of their Symphonic Orchestra they describe as: '[Air Lyndhurst] is known for it's large and reverberant sound, very modern and "hollywood-esque".'

For BBC SO: 'The sound is very open and characteristic, but well treated and not as reverberant as AIR Lyndhurst. Think more 'classic' Orchestra rather than instant film score!'

If the BBC SO library indeed goes for the classic orchestra sound, for me that would be intriguing.

[Ashermusic]

The "instant Hollywood film score" thing is nonsense. If you go to a scoring stage in LA and Al Schmidt is the engineer your film score sounds different than if it's Allan Meyerson and different than in other soundstages and studios in LA. I like drier libraries in general because of the greater flexibility.

[FriFlo]

(...) the design copied from Deutsche Grammophon. (...)

Fri, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I can't find any design similarities between Spitfire and Deutsche Grammophon. Can you post an example of what you mean? Thanks!

_

Lots of patina! ;-)

[FriFlo]

That was the original BML design, right? Sure they’re on record as saying it was the “inspiration”.

They openly said that? Phew, I am relieved! :-) I clearly remember thinking of DG when seeing that BML Design for the first time. But in comparison, the similarities are not as striking as I remembered it. Well, if they said it, I obviously didn’t hallucinate. ;-)

[Piet De Ridder]

(...) They openly said that? (...)

Yes, they said it. Did a little search yesterday and it seems that the BML design was indeed partly inspired by the late-Fifties vinyl jackets of Deutsche Grammophon. That, plus a few old Michael Caine movies and the work of the 19th century photographer Roger Fenton, Spitfire said. The topic came up in the 2013 Sable announcement thread on VI-C. Apparently, it was the sleeve pictured below (DGG LPM18222) which was used as a sort of template for the yellow BML-header.



_

[GR Baumann]

Yep, I remember when I thought this to be a borderline case of riding the elephant, impostering, using deeply memorised brand-signs of quality in audio, on purpose of course, and them being Spitfire, with one in particular being extremely pretentious, it did not surprise me, not a sausage.

[Linos]

Two new demos up on Spitfires website. Though I wouldn't call them weak in any way, to my ears especially Oliver Patrice Weder's mockup has its share of slightly problematic passages.

[lofi]

...on tour with the Antiques Roadshow...

Working on music for the new season of the above show.

...

I’ve got the new LABS and some of my EVO’s got updated to the new engine. It’s really good. Finally I can work with my laptop without bouncing tracks.

Have high hopes for this library, maybe not in the studio but on the go, I find this player superior to Kontakt player in that it’s easy to use and really easy to read on a laptop screen.

Fingers crossed that this new library will be as good as its predecessors.

Best,
/Anders

[Guy Rowland]

Two new demos up on Spitfires website. Though I wouldn't call them weak in any way, to my ears especially Oliver Patrice Weder's mockup has it's share of slightly problematic passages.

Just caught up with them. Larry, it's safe to listen to these!

I concur, Linos. Not terrible or anything close, they're both pretty damn good really. But they are mortal, and therefore I was less wowed by the intrinsic differences between BBC and other libraries. It's not vanished, don't get me wrong, but its a helpful correction to anyone who was tempted to think that this would produce magic.

[Geoff Grace]

The main hope I have for this library is that the room—and perhaps the zillion mic choices—may provide a sweet spot between wet and dry.

Best,

Geoff

[Lawrence]

Two new demos up on Spitfires website. Though I wouldn't call them weak in any way, to my ears especially Oliver Patrice Weder's mockup has it's share of slightly problematic passages.

Just caught up with them. Larry, it's safe to listen to these!

I concur, Linos. Not terrible or anything close, they're both pretty damn good really. But they are mortal, and therefore I was less wowed by the intrinsic differences between BBC and other libraries. It's not vanished, don't get me wrong, but its a helpful correction to anyone who was tempted to think that this would produce magic.

Ha!

I’m actually not kidding, though. I couldn’t be more of an admirer of Andy Blaney’s talent, but his demos show everything in the BEST possible light. He’s a formidable weapon in Spitfire’s arsenal.

[Guy Rowland]

I’m actually not kidding, though. I couldn’t be more of an admirer of Andy Blaney’s talent, but his demos show everything in the BEST possible light. He’s a formidable weapon in Spitfire’s arsenal.

With all due thanks to David Gosnell who re-posted this on VI-C, this is Andy Blaney using Kontakt and Gigastudio VSL in the early 2000s recreating Jupiter from the Planets Suite - https://www.vsl.co.at/audio/AB_Holst_Pl ... upiter.mp3 . Of course it's not perfect, the high strings right towards the end feel like the biggest fail, but my goodness. If that was a new library, people would likely be clamouring all over it, probably.

Seriously... how DOES he do it? It can't be actual witchcraft. There are other hugely accomplished composers with great technical skill, but they can't quite get his results, can they?

[ok_tan]

its wichcraft. he sold his soul to beethoven.

[KyleJudkins]

its wichcraft. he sold his soul to beethoven.

maybe that's the trade off - he can't hear his own mockups, only the joy others express when they hear his work

[KyleJudkins]

With all due thanks to David Gosnell who re-posted this on VI-C, this is Andy Blaney using Kontakt and Gigastudio VSL in the early 2000s recreating Jupiter from the Planets Suite - https://www.vsl.co.at/audio/AB_Holst_Pl ... upiter.mp3 .

I mean, this is literally why I have a no andy/troel demo rule.

Both of them are simply too able to create something amazing with the least malleable samples.

[FriFlo]

What Blaney does is remarkable of course, but I wouldn't say it's magical, either! ;-) IMO, it is the combination of someone who can compose really well with pen and paper, but at the same time, he is good at playing samples and has all sorts of tricks up his sleeve how to fake certain things with programming. Add to that really good mixing skills and you have Mr. Blaney! The most important thing however: You have to be able to imagine a real orchestral performance in your head and keep that in your mind until the very last stages of the mix. This is really not easy, because in the mean time your have heard your midi a thousand times and it tends to replace the sound you first imagined ... I have nowhere near as many skills in the other aspects, but this is, what I REALLY struggle with.
Well, your basically have to master all parts of the craft of a composer and the midi producer and mixer. Some might call that magic ... ;-)

[wst3]

with respect - I think the most important thing is being able to write, and a close second is being able to arrange/orchestrate. But I think the ability to imagine the real performance (orchestral or not) plays into both of these, and absolutely becomes part of the process when tweaking and mixing.

One of the reasons that I still prefer to compose and at least start an arrangement on paper, or even in Finale, is that it separates the composition and arrangement from the mix. I don't know why that is important (to me at least) but it makes a big difference.

And since nothing is a rule, I need to compose about a dozen short snippets for a live theatre production that goes to tech this Sunday. I will use every tool in the toolbox, and probably work almost entirely in Sonar because of the short time frame, and the fact that these are all incidental cues or effects, and I will get away with it. (I think??)

(don't ask how I managed to get into this spot!!!)

The other exception worth noting - there are some developers (no names please) who write some fairly trite demos (speaking strictly of the composition), and yet they can make them exciting, and make the library sound awesome. That would be a useful skill right about now!

But it remains the handful of folks who can show off a library at its best every time (or nearly so) whom I tip my hat. It is one thing to be able to use a library to its fullest after spending time with it, but to be able to do so from scratch is impressive. (There was a Intimate Studio Brass demo when the library launched that blew me away, I very nearly bought "yet another" brass library based on that demo alone.)

[The Saxer]

The most popular superstition in sample world is the existence of a balanced template where you just have to fill notes and it will sound like a good orchestral mix. It's simply not the way it works. It doesn't even work inside a pre-mixed virtual acoustic drum kit.

I think the real magic is to imagine the result. It's the only way to correct things on the fly in the mockup creating process. A simple imbalance between the first few instruments on the start can dump a whole mockup. This imbalance can easily be achieved by mod wheel alone. It's like starting a song with a drum beat hitting the first kicks with velo 127 in the balanced drum kit. You can't go anywhere from there (except to eleven).

What I admire most in Andy Blaney's tracks is the cornucopia of ideas. No repeated bars or endless ostinatos or drum patterns to rely on. It's like a circle of ten kids throwing and catching ten balls to each other without ever dropping one of them. Not the single ball is interesting but the whole situation creates the magic. Same with the samples. Not every detail sounds real or elegant but the whole mockup does.

[Geoff Grace]

That reminds me. I recently posted Alex Ball's video again over at VI Control. (He posted it there last year.) Perhaps some members here might enjoy it as well.



Alex's thread:

My Big Fat Guide to Using A Virtual Orchestra

Best,

Geoff

[Tanuj Tiku]

[Tanuj Tiku]

This is really well recorded material, I have to say. I am really liking the brass and the woodwinds.

I think, I may have to get this for the woodwinds and brass alone!

It sounds better than anything I have heard from Spitfire in terms of proper orchestra sound. Very happy they ditched Air.

The strings sound good too but I want to hear more in context. I did not like the new demos much.

[Guy Rowland]

Woodwind ensembles sound fantastic! Though missing many legato demos here, just a few notes from the oboes. And having heard the solo strings which sounded bumpy as all hell, that's definitely one to listen out for.

I really liked the MV in the strings. Brass sounded very good, but its the section I feel I need more of the least. Did like the damped timps, they'd be handy, and the harp trems sounded dreamy. The percussion in general was very tasty, have to say.

I wonder if they'll ever separate these into sections for sale?

[Linos]

Brass and woodwinds mostly sound very good to outstanding to me (trumpets, oboe, and the vibrato on the bassoon left a few doubts). Percussion sounds good. The strings were a mixed bag for me. I like the overall sound. The legato, however, does not sound quite right to me. Especially for faster passages, on the section leader of the second violins, and on the cello section. The portamento doesn't have that problem, but on the legato something in the note attack sounds off to me.

The room I like pretty much. Sounds much more like a classical orchestra than their Air Lyndhurst libraries. Absolutely fantastic is the sense of depth you get. I was skeptical about the number of mics. But it seems they allow control not only over the amount of reverb, but the depth as well. That's extraordinary and not something I get from other libraries. The mic position walkthrough will shed more light on this.

All in all it sounds like a solid, versatile package.