Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass: some memory tips

[Piet De Ridder]

You're right of course. (I did put all those libraries in the same folder on my HD, called 'Performance Samples,' hence my mistake.

_

[KyleJudkins]

Yeah, and adventure brass is basically direct competition for Caspian.

oddly enough though, I prefer angry brass over Caspian in a lot of ways... But I'm but a peasant

[Tanuj Tiku]

The website now says, an estimated date of 19th April. Moved up a few days.

[Guy Rowland]

The website now says, an estimated date of 19th April. Moved up a few days.

Grrr. They have been promising us demos and videos for 4 months now, surely they can at least start putting those up tomorrow?

[FriFlo]

Grrr. They have been promising us demos and videos for 4 months now, surely they can at least start putting those up tomorrow?

I think it is actually the demos and the walkthroughs they discuss to death before releasing a library to the public. The library itself should be ready since several months, as they already encoded it for some time. There also shouldn’t be to many problems with their scripts, as it is not new with this release. So, unless they hit some serious unexpected problem (which could delay the release by a months or more ...) I rather think they optimize the shit out of their demos and walkthroughs! Which is understandable, as those actually sell their library ...

[Guy Rowland]

Well, they have been saying since November to "stay tuned for demos and videos", and it's due out today (now Friday). Clearly they changed their mind on the whole advanced demos and videos thing but never bothered to mention it, and now changing the date with 24 hours to go is just vaguely irritating.

[Tanuj Tiku]

It is still an estimated date

I always assumed, this release date was for the official reveal with demos and videos, not the product itself. But, I have not followed any news on this on forums, so I may be wrong.

[Tanuj Tiku]

Very impressive sound you got there, Tanuj.

By the way, Jasper's strings libraries are satisfying things to work with as well. The man seems to have an ear for sampling the useable essence. While my first purchase, the Soaring Strings, though good, still contained a few distracting weaknesses (some nasal-sounding whining sustains here and there), the two other libraries I bought since — the Fluids and the Con Moto Violins B — contain high-quality, inspiring material.

_

Soaring Strings is actually another developer, although he seems to have used similar approach in recording those legatos (derived from performance):
https://www.musicalsampling.com
Con moto and Fluid Shorts is Performance Samples:
https://performancesamples.com

@Tanuj: that really does sound good!
So far, I only bought the fluid shorts from performance samples and nothing from musical sampling. But both of those developers really seem to push forward what I actually look for: patches, that make things possible, that always sounded fake with most (or all) other libraries. This far, the only thing that kept me from buying those is that I prefer to have a more complete library regarding articulations - at least like Cinematic Studio Series - preferably like Orchestral Tools (regarding wealth of options). But probably it is not really doable to finance a huge library with that much quality and content while staying on the cheaper side - few people seem spend more than $1000 on one library regardless of its content and value. That is unfortunate, but you probably cannot do much about it. I am also having difficulties spending a lot of cash on a library, simply because most developers have been barely waiting for more than a year to dump their new stuff for 40% off or less ... that makes it hard to trust anyone these days ...

FriFlo,

I like how Jasper is pushing the world of sampling ahead. Performance Samples is not a huge company. May be it is, but does not look like. The problem currently with libraries is that, most of the new ones are offering more colours. It is more about the sound, which is nice but there are no core jumps in innovation.

I am just so happy to see how much I can get out of Caspian from a single patch and so easily. With other libraries, I have to stitch it. What is astonishing is how bad some of those Spitfire fanfare patches are in comparison for example. I used to like East West Shorts Mod patches but Caspian for me is a new leap. I can really just play. The attacks are right, the cross-fade is good. It is very useable and musical.

Honestly, I cannot believe most of the big players have not invested in this. I don't even know where Jasper records the players and who is playing. It is all great to have a library recorded at Abbey Road for example with the best gear and acoustics but at its core if it is not inherently musical or shall I say, if it cannot be programmed with good results, it is pointless.

May be, a lot of this is geared at many composers who record at Abbey Road and Air. May be it keeps the sonic language similar when moving from samples to live recordings.

Yes, some libraries are expensive but if it is really good, I do not mind saving up and getting it. My library is very restricted!

[Lawrence]

Tanuj-that is exactly the patch I use at present for that-the EW Mod Shorts. You’re saying Caspian does it better and by velocity instead of that quick mod wheel move?

[Tanuj Tiku]

Larry, it is a step further from that. There is no shorts or longs switching. You just play like samplemodeling. The attacks are tuned to react with the modwheel, depending on the dynamic you are at. Velocity does nothing. Whatever your note length, it adapts.

Here are a few more things:

PS Contextual

PS Solo

Luckily, I am in the studio using it at the moment. So, I have attached a video from my phone for you. You can see, it is a single patch with just modwheel control.

Video (Only for visual understanding): https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4fvj3no1n1sk ... S.MOV?dl=0

PS: Please keep in mind, this is not out of the box sound. The contextual clip has Samplemodeling and East West horns layered as well but the solo does not. The main sound is Performance Samples.

[Mike Greene]

I think it is actually the demos and the walkthroughs they discuss to death before releasing a library to the public. The library itself should be ready since several months, as they already encoded it for some time. There also shouldn’t be to many problems with their scripts, as it is not new with this release. So, unless they hit some serious unexpected problem (which could delay the release by a months or more ...) I rather think they optimize the shit out of their demos and walkthroughs! Which is understandable, as those actually sell their library ...

I'll bet your theory is right. Demos and walkthroughs take a surprisingly long time. At least a full day for a 20-minute walkthrough video, if you want it to be good. Often longer. There's also the drudgery of making the new web page, uploading the files (and then testing those uploads), writing press releases, and all sorts of other little things that take a ton of time.

For my own libraries, it's usually a week after the library's completion before all that stuff gets finished and I can actually release. Even now as I read that sentence back, that sounds crazy and I don't see how it can possibly take me that long, but it does. Andrew is a perfectionist, so it's probably worse for him.

[Lawrence]

Larry, it is a step further from that. There is no shorts or longs switching. You just play like samplemodeling. The attacks are tuned to react with the modwheel, depending on the dynamic you are at. Velocity does nothing. Whatever your note length, it adapts.

Here are a few more things:

PS Contextual

PS Solo

Luckily, I am in the studio using it at the moment. So, I have attached a video from my phone for you. You can see, it is a single patch with just modwheel control.

Video (Only for visual understanding): https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4fvj3no1n1sk ... S.MOV?dl=0

PS: Please keep in mind, this is not out of the box sound. The contextual clip has Samplemodeling and East West horns layered as well but the solo does not. The main sound is Performance Samples.

Tanuj-thanks so much for posting those, I appreciate it.

Unfortunately, I'm not so impressed with the sound. I expected more bite. They sound full, but not particularly cutting through-do you disagree?

[Tanuj Tiku]

Larry, did you listen to the earlier demos I posted? They have more attack and I think that’s the maximum you can get out of these. This new demo is a little soft on attacks.

I agree, it could have a bit more bite and as always, just the right lengths. But, I find for some reason that performance samples sounds more connected and musical.

East west sure has the bite but it can sometimes be a bit choppy and feels ‘stiched’, for lack of better words.

Absolutely both are are very useful and if you are happy with EW, then you may pass on Caspian.

Performance samples does have a little honky sound as well. I do EQ it. Which is why what you are hearing is not out of the box.

There is a preliminary demo somewhere of the next brass library from Jasper (Angry brass) on soundcloud. I will find it and post it here. I think, that had more attack.

[tack]

The website now has a video and a couple demos.

https://audiobro.com/modern-scoring-brass/

And a firmed up release date of Tuesday April with an intro price of $599 USD.

Sounds like a real power house of a library.

[Guy Rowland]

It's a great intro walkthrough, but I do find myself wanting to hear quite a bit more. There are times when it's quite breathtaking, and other times where something seems missing that I can't quite put my finger on - lacking a bit of warmth, character or richness perhaps. I'd like to hear more examples of adding those solo instruments to go from 1-8 horns for example which I guess is coming in another video which looks at the placement and arrangement section, ditto the mixer.

Vibrato is a whole area that the video really seems to skate round. There's a vibrato control and you see it being used up to about 4 in the solo legato section, but the effect is subtle and I'm left feeling a bit concerned that this must be a post-produced effect ie not recorded vibrato. That solo trumpet quite badly lacks character for me, the legato is very clean but restrained and there's a lack of that lyrical vibrato to sell a classic poignant line. What does that vibrato knob sound liked turned up to 10? And this of course will have a huge effect on the ensemble sound, again I don't think I've yet heard it properly.

That also applies to dynamics. Same solo legato trumpet section of the video... the good news is that I don't hear the tell-tale phasing, its very smooth across the travel of CC1. The bad news is that the range feels quite constrained - is just an HPF? Clearly we hear marked differences in the sustained horns across their 3 levels, but we don't hear the transitions. So I'm kinda confused at this point, I really want to hear more.

Feature-set is pretty stunning, hopefully its a case of setting it all up with your controllers then its good to go. There's mention of a lot of different patches on the website that I can't quite get my head around, the Intuition Series totally baffles me - there's talk there of physical modelling transitions. Good to see an option for main-mics only installs for laptops etc.

Staggered at pricing, this will send a ripple effect throughout the industry I think.

Overall this is very impressive and in my case I think might complement what I already have very well. It's not the Sony Stage sound, but I already have that, after all. Think it will excel at precision, I'm less sure it will excel at character. Not making a final decision yet, think I'm quite likely to buy but definitely need to hear more.

[Linos]

The concept is great, the player looks nice and neat, the feature list is comprehensive. And yet the walkthrough didn't do enough to convince me that this library sets a new standard for sampling brass. I couldn't find any info about velocity layers, but in the walkthrough it seems there are three (p, mf, ff). While crossfading is indeed smooth, in my opinion there is very little timbral variety. There is the brassy ff top-layer that should be sparsely used outside of epic. But below that two timbres are simply not enough, and doubly so if they do sound pretty similar to start with.

Individual players to build your own sections is very much the way brass and woodwind libraries should be recorded in my opinion. I don't need a2 and a4 patches when I can build them myself with individual players. So that's a huge advantage that Modern Scoring Brass has for me over most competitors. Alas, the walkthrough and the demos (both a similar style of music, curiously) don't have me sold on it. I'm waiting for more demos and info. Currently I am leaning towards Cinematic Studio Brass, even if that means that I have to mix and match to build a section of four individual horn players, for example.

[tack]

Individual players to build your own sections is very much the way brass and woodwind libraries should be recorded in my opinion. I don't need a2 and a4 patches when I can build them myself with individual players.

I've always found the sound of stacking separate soloists to create an ensemble underwhelming compared to the real thing. There's a richness about getting 4 horns in a room playing together that's missing from stacking solo recordings, which sounds more sterile.

[wst3]

I agree Jason, except I'm greedy - I want both approaches.

As for MSB - based solely on the demos I have to say it sounds lovely. And other than the lack of recorded ensembles (save for some of the horns) it includes pretty much every feature and articulation I can think of - may mean I lack imagination?

At $600 I will be quite tempted. I probably won't pull the trigger in time to take advantage of the sale, I have my solution in place, but I am tempted.

[Markus K]

Individual players to build your own sections is very much the way brass and woodwind libraries should be recorded in my opinion. I don't need a2 and a4 patches when I can build them myself with individual players.

I've always found the sound of stacking separate soloists to create an ensemble underwhelming compared to the real thing. There's a richness about getting 4 horns in a room playing together that's missing from stacking solo recordings, which sounds more sterile.

That’s the reason why I find it more convincing to form brass chords out of a2 patches despite the fact that it is not “realistic “. In fact to me it sounds more realistic than forming chords out of soloists. Maybe one of those things where the sampling world has it’s own rules.

[Guy Rowland]

Markus - well, at least with horns MSB does have 2 pairs along with 4 solos.

I really am waiting for a proper demo of the ensemble section here. I asked on the Audiobro forum when more videos would be coming - the next one apparently will be to do with memory usage and templates. That's important I guess, but there's far too many unknowns as this stage on the basics to make an informed decision imo. Personally I'd far rather have less post-produced polish in the videos and more straightforward walkthroughs of the different functionality and sound options.

[KyleJudkins]

would like to see mixer/mic comparison.

All in all - a bit thinner than BB, closer to typical Williams sound. I don't know how to feel about it, Although I'd love to see how well the two sit together.

Sometimes I feel like I should cut some bottom end out of berlin brass - wouldn't mix and matching be a plottwist? I'd KILL for that A.R.T. though. Looks absolutely incredible. Oddly enough reminds me of the phrase builder from dominus(maybe the UI colors?) but drag and dropping the midi would be amazing even for ole' lassy.

[SirKen]

“Sizzle” control dials in bell-shaking, window-rattling power. Or pull out the edge and get sonorous, dark, and mellow

The Walkthrough demo had the Sizzle turned up to varying degrees for all instruments. I am really curious how the sound would change if the Sizzle knob was left in neutral or in opposite direction.

[Guy Rowland]

Thought I'd spend a few moments trying to get to the bottom of what I like and what I don't with the material we have so far.

Those opening moments of Reaching The Summit are fabulous. Yes, they are helped by some tremendous composition and arrangement, but it feels like brass sounding 100% as it should. I find it pretty difficult to square this as the same library that produced the stretch of The White Whale from 40s to 50s. I still can't quite pinpoint what it is there that I react against, but it almost evokes Garritan. I don't use the G word as a cheap shot, its abundantly clear that MSB is sonically infinitely superior. But there's a flatness to the sound in this stretch that was the moment when I first went "ohhhh..... what happened?"

It's in the video at 11'45 or so, and I can see pretty much everything going full tilt, presumably all in auto-divisi mode. You'd hope that would result in increased realism, but something just doesn't sound quite right.

Now I listen back to Reaching the Summit, I can sort of hear the same effect in the latter sustain sections of that piece in the trumpets, but perhaps it is masked by layering with other instruments, particularly the strings. I feel like the main culprit is trumpet sustains in divisi mode. Maybe it's too on-the-nose perfect pitching wise? More humanisation perhaps? Curious to know what others think.

[Muziksculp]

Hope to see MSB officially released today.

I'm sure more videos, and audio demos will help us better evaluate, and understand the flexibility, and options this library offers, and possibly timbre related details, tips, ...etc.

It's already past noon today in L.A. (April 23rd). but it hasn't been released yet, maybe a matter of a few more hours, and we will have much more info. to digest.

[tack]

Yeah, and they've removed the April 23 date from the website.

Meeting time commitments is hard!