Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass: some memory tips

[Guy Rowland]

Estimated Q1 2019

No videos or audio yet, but some details here - https://audiobro.com/modern-scoring-brass/

[KyleJudkins]

I posted mine before you.


somehow within the same minute

you must have clicked that email just as fast as I did XD,

though yours calls it by it's "real name", so feel free to delete my thread

[Guy Rowland]

Ooop yes, Kyle beat me to it, mods feel free to delete this one. There will be much to discuss...

[KyleJudkins]

I like the they've included the auto divisie, although I didn't use it with LA scoring strings, I know that that would be a nice feature for some people... Especially if you just mostly use the instrument melodically but then occasionally use chords

and I took care of my thread already, don't worry... But I guess it would be nice to hear from some Genesis owners how the new engine looks, since it looks like a similar one is used for this

[Guy Rowland]

Ah ok Kyle!

My first thought was not perhaps a good one. A few years ago there was a product called, I think, DMZ Strings, or something like that. Someone here will remember. It was years in development, and worked on a principle of desks - rather than recording the ensemble, it recorded individual players for complete flexibility and - in theory - realism. It was a sad and sorry tale... I can't remember what the asking price was to recoup the huge investment but essentially it was DOA, mostly because it just didn't sound very good. And the main takeaway as I recall was...

DON'T RECORD ENSEMBLE LIBRARIES BY LAYERING UP INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. It never sounds right, and will likely bankrupt you in the process.

So I kinda had a pit-in-my-stomach feeling that this whole thing was going to be a cautionary tale that library developers tell their kids when out camping at night on Halloween. But then an equal and opposite thought came to mind, that for big band brass, the conventional wisdom is the best realism is always achieved by doing exactly this - layering up individual instruments. Perhaps there is something in the tone of brass that is quite different to strings? And for that matter, woodwinds are notoriously bad to record as ensembles, where they usually inexplicably turn into organs. Or maybe my takeaway is totally wrong?

Who knows. As always, the proof of the pudding is in the listening, and there are no demos yet.

But there are of course plenty of reasons to be hopeful. LASS is a landmark product in sampling, and in the past year Audiobro have clearly further upped their game with scripting and UI, moving away from the powerful but fiddly and intricate to something far more immediate. The blurb on the different sustain attacks will warm the cockles of practically every composer, as will the comments on the shorts. And for sure this has been in development for likely 8-10 years I'd have thought.

Hoping that they allow custom installation for mics - 110gb is a whopper (as it should be given 30 instruments with all those artics and 5 mic positions), but just the main mixes for laptop would be peachy.

Interesting times for brass libraries, clearly.

[Luke]

C Trumpets. C Trumpets!

Just had to get that off my chest. And if anyone can pull this divisi trick off, it's Andrew. Although I might add that I don't particularly understand the philosophy of recording everything divisi but not going for a couple of ensemble patches at least: 4-6 Horns, 2 Trumpets, low brass ensemble. But I should not judge before having it in my hands...

[tack]

The battle of the prematurely announced brass libraries begins.

[KyleJudkins]

The battle of the prematurely announced brass libraries begins.

I know right?!?!?

i mean, audiomodelling brass is slated to be out early 2019 too - so looks like everyone got tired of making string libraries(temporarily)

As far as the divisi comments, LASS works great with divisi... and even situations like berlin brass - im sure a MB to tame some of the build up would allow you to skip using the ensemble patches.

and ofcourse, I'd rather have both - but with brass or woodwinds, I just feel like its a massive waste...

strings???? well strings have the issue of the entire sound comes from far more players - which means inorder to get a decent ensemble size, you need something akin to a 60 piece in the first place(i think LASS is 'technically' around here - although IIRC the VII is edited samples)

[Lawrence]

Wasn't this the idea behind Dimension strings and brass? Individual players recorded in situ?

[NoamL]

Berlin Brass generates a pretty realistic sound with individually recorded musicians.

There are problems with the individual-sampling approach apart from the sound, however. In BB the instruments were programmed to play back different dynamic layers at the same modwheel position. So you can't use one MIDI performance to control multiple instruments simultaneously, or copy and paste from one instrument to another. This creates lots of difficulties in a real life productivity scenario (e.g. writing on TV). The other issue is the RAM impact, it's easily 40-60 GB just to load some main articulations with a full complement of mics.

So that's what I'd look out for in terms of issues here. They already are advertising that you can control this behemoth easily with the auto-divisi and polyphonic legato engines, so that's reassuring. I expect this library to be very expensive and a big RAM impact, but high quality. Much like LASS was back in its day?

[Luke]

Berlin Brass generates a pretty realistic sound with individually recorded musicians.

There are problems with the individual-sampling approach apart from the sound, however. In BB the instruments were programmed to play back different dynamic layers at the same modwheel position. So you can't use one MIDI performance to control multiple instruments simultaneously, or copy and paste from one instrument to another. This creates lots of difficulties in a real life productivity scenario (e.g. writing on TV).

From the site:
Each patch in Modern Scoring Brass has been carefully crafted over hundreds of hours to allow for a consistent out-of-the-box experience.

I expect this library to be very expensive and a big RAM impact, but high quality. Much like LASS was back in its day?

While the price is still to be determined, we believe you will be pleasantly surprised by comparison to the other offerings on the market, especially considering the depth and scope of Modern Scoring Brass!

So there is at least good reason to be hopeful, considering Audiobro's track record.

[NoamL]

Hey I hope so too but if this is the same price as BB (currently $900) I will be stunned. Two and a half times as many instruments, plus mutes on nearly EVERY instrument (that's another $230 for the equivalent Berlin expansion)....

[Luke]

Sure, could very well be. I guess my argument would be that Andrew has apparently been quietly working on a new engine for a while (the blurb calls it "orchestral engine"), unleashed it in Genesis, and now the overhead for that portion of development is smaller. Of course it doesn't cover the recording costs, editing time, etc., but my guess is around $1k. Though for this caliber of flexibility and hopefully quality, a couple hundred bucks more or less won't be a deal breaker.

[KyleJudkins]

Hey I hope so too but if this is the same price as BB (currently $900) I will be stunned. Two and a half times as many instruments, plus mutes on nearly EVERY instrument (that's another $230 for the equivalent Berlin expansion)....

and its got cimbassi XD

really though, glory days is such a steal in comparison - and as someone who owns both BB extra instruments and mutes - and is saving up for the actual library - seeing glory days so much more affordable with way more content kills me on the inside >.>

[kony]

The battle of the prematurely announced brass libraries begins.

Hehe! Including this one from JXL....

[lucor]

Personally I think they should keep the price in the 3 digits range (so 999$ at most). I'm not sure you can still sell libraries for 1000-2000$ in todays day and age. I mean, just look at the outrage over Afflatus' price. Sure, some professionals might get it, but I suppose most hobbyists (which make up the majority of the market) will be quickly turned off and tend to much cheaper alternatives. It's probably smarter to sell for less, but get more sales in the process (seems to be working perfectly for Alex Wallbank and his Cinematic Studio Series).

Anyway, I'm incredibly excited about this and already started saving. I'll still be getting CSB though, because how could I not at 279$...

[kony]

Same here - I'll be getting both CSB and MSB but not for a while.

[Lawrence]

I had an interesting discussion with a developer about pricing a few years back. I held that lower prices/more units sold would do better than a higher price/less units sold model. His opinion/research didn't agree. It would be interesting to know definitively, although I imagine it varies from case to case.

[KyleJudkins]

Yeah I mean, seems like next to nobody owns berlin strings/brass

I just wish I had the thousands I dumped into EW back in the day XD only because by the time I had built a computer to run it, there was much more appealing options out there.

that said, its cool that junkie is making a brass library.
Not going to be my thing, but im sure it'll sell well.

[Tanuj Tiku]

Very much look forward to this!

I won’t mind it being a little expensive if it’s something that is decidedly good and unique.

It must be tough to release orchestral libraries today because so much is already out there and by now most people have at least a couple of options. And so it puts more pressure on developers to offer something that is fresh and can motivate the buyer.

[Lawrence]

Very much look forward to this!

I won’t mind it being a little expensive if it’s something that is decidedly good and unique.

It must be tough to release orchestral libraries today because so much is already out there and by now most people have at least a couple of options. And so it puts more pressure on developers to offer something that is fresh and can motivate the buyer.

And yet, they are simply pouring out.

[Daryl]

DON'T RECORD ENSEMBLE LIBRARIES BY LAYERING UP INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. It never sounds right, and will likely bankrupt you in the process.

Guy, I think the big caveat is that Strings, as in section strings, are not solo instruments, whereas Brass and Woodwinds are. One of the important thing about strings is that there is a natural phasing, which is all part of the sound, the instruments set off sympathetic vibrations, which make the sound homogeneous. If you were after a 16 French Horn sound, I think you would have the same issues. However, layering 3-4 Horn players is not necessarily going to be bad. I don't think more than 4 will be terribly useful, but hope to be proved wrong. I do think that the sound will be smaller than if they were recorded together.

[Daryl]

Personally I think they should keep the price in the 3 digits range (so 999$ at most). I'm not sure you can still sell libraries for 1000-2000$ in todays day and age.

Certainly if it is just more of the same, and not appreciably better, there will be a price limit. However, my main gripe with many orchestral sample library developers is that the QA is terrible, so maybe there is room for more of the same, but better.

[Daryl]

It must be tough to release orchestral libraries today because so much is already out there and by now most people have at least a couple of options. And so it puts more pressure on developers to offer something that is fresh and can motivate the buyer.

You'd think so, but from what I can see there has been nothing new and fresh for 10-15 years. Just variations of "more of the same". Sample Modeling (and others) did produce something new and fresh, but the limitations (or in some cases perceived limitations) were never really conquered.

[Guy Rowland]

So how do you view this offering Daryl, at least on paper? It doesn't look like Just Another Brass Library to me, and Audiobro do have a good reputation for detailed work.

Larry, you're right I always forget about Dimension Brass, but that might be because it had such a lukewarm reception, which I've always attributed to the same problem of single players building to unconvincing sections, though there may well be other reasons. An interesting notion of yours, Daryl, that it is scale above about 4 that is the issue.

FWIW, my guess on the cost would be between $799 - $999. If it delivers on the sound, that will be a terrific price for the scale of what this covers, as you could make a good case for nearer the $1.5k level.