Something "new" from Spitfire on the 21th of September

[tack]

Will check this space on Thursday. Until then ...

[J Rod]

i hope is not SSP.

[mcalis]

So, I watch some of CH's youtube vlogs and I don't have anything against the Spitfire people on a personal level, but... bleh, I just can't bring myself to be remotely excited for another Spitfire product. Perhaps it's because I've started to get irritated with their profoundly inconsistent articulations for each instrument in their Symphonic Woodwinds package. I also just get annoyed at their marketing. Oh well.

[J Rod]

Lately i do not get any more excited about the spitfire products for personal reasons, but SSO it's something i want to complete.

But their marketing strategy is like this: 265.000 views

[tack]

I really tried to understand the point of that video, J Rod, but 4 hours into it I decided to give up.

[Guy Rowland]

Oh good, an even bigger GUI with no new functionality! Huzzah!

Not surprised that they've re-released it, but what a wasted opportunity. No effects at all - it always was surprisingly bare, and still is. No groove engine - nada. Just - AFAIK - 1 mic mix in the basic version reduced from 4, and.... er..... NKS ready. Woot.

But wait, I forgot about the MARKETING.

[J Rod]

Oh good, an even bigger GUI with no new functionality! Huzzah!

Not surprised that they've re-released it, but what a wasted opportunity. No effects at all - it always was surprisingly bare, and still is. No groove engine - nada. Just - AFAIK - 1 mic mix in the basic version reduced from 4, and.... er..... NKS ready. Woot.

But wait, I forgot about the MARKETING.

Thats exactly what i was talking about.

Here are two exceptional examples about marketing strategies: wirth all clear from first announce:

Toontrack Superior Drumer 3: New content, new improved workflow, new 5.1 mix, new UI. you can still use SD2.

Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2: New content, new workflow, new UI. add funtionality if you buy Keyscapes.

And...

HZ Percusion: same recordings, no new content, new GUI (wow), pay more to get a half product and wait longer to get Pro version (full HZ01+HZ02). Complicating things. we need to pay two times to get Hans Zimmer Pro?, What the hell will happend with HZ02?, will terminate like Glass and Steel, a rebranded product from Kitchenware Glass + Kitchenware Metals or will get the new gui?.

HZ01, HZ02 ....end of life support...coming soon.

Jason 4 hours to decided?

[playz123]

Not as negative as others about this. First, I never did purchase any of the previous HZ Percussion libraries, but did appreciate their value. Second, when this one came along I felt it would be more than sufficient for my needs (based on everything else I have) and the price was right for the value received. So I purchased it today and am downloading it now. The demo that spoke to me the most was the one by Ty Unwin. I have also admired his soundtracks, and really liked how everything sounded in his HZ demo. Obviously I can't comment more until I've played with the library, but certainly no regrets about my decision so far. I suspect others who are in a similar position may feel the same way? But I also understand that purchasers of previous HZ Perc libraries may have concerns that differ from those who have only purchased this library.

[Guy Rowland]

Frank - yes, perfectly fine proposition as a new product. I only have HZ01, and it's always sounded great. Essentially it's a slimmed down HZ01+03, and there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, it's just so much less than this opportunity could have been. So many other percussion libraries in the past couple of years have vastly exceeded the HZ series in terms of functionality, this is just vanilla samples with a whopping great GUI for no reason. Fine samples though.

And the marketing (I'll confess I couldn't bring myself to watch this trailer any more than I can bring myself to watch anything with Kardashian in the title - I know both will just be insufferable and annoy the heck out of me) for something so utlitarian just breeds cynicism among certain kinds of existing customers (like me).

[Lawrence]

Not sure about all of that, Anders. I own a few Spitfire products and I like them just fine (SCS is outstanding). however it took me a long time to get over my dislike of hyperbolic marketing, which I consider them, along with early 8Dio, to be particularly guilty of. I don't think it's off base to discuss the marketing of products up to a point, as buying decisions aren't made on sound quality alone-there are GUIs, ease of use, customer support, the requisite care to release finished (or close to finished) products, the general reputation of the company itself is a factor.

I'm not saying that 5 page developer slagfests are a good thing, not at all-however, when companies make bold claims and hyperbolic proclamations, I think they're fair game for some subjective opinions....within reason.

[Tanuj Tiku]

This is a strange announcement. I do understand that they are updating and consolidating their products but it looks like a half measure.

I have HZ-01 so people like me are totally left in the dark. It won't be updated and if I want to upgrade, I am forced to pay $106 and get the pro version (granted it has HZ-03 as well).

However, even upon release the PRO edition which is really the additional mics (which earlier users already have!) are not available.

So, there is very little reason to upgrade right now in any case. What is more, this product looks like a re-launch to get more customers to buy it. If feels, they may have paid a little less attention to existing customers.

[Guy Rowland]

Anders - I can't speak for Larry, but of course marketing can be discussed as a general point (our creed is to speak freely as we find) And - imo - its not an entirely trivial issue. My view is that Spitfire's marketing has increasingly been style over substance, and just like any product that can produce a negative reaction. Nothing controversial about that, and neither does it suggest that all marketing of any kind is in some way bad.

Your point on value is entirely fair - I wouldn't say I share the same perspective exactly, but of course its a reasonable view. On the one hand us HZ01 users lose a lot of mixes in the new product, on the other we gain new solo samples, with the combined cost $60-$70 cheaper. That's fine, but it's not - to me - a no brainer bargain or anything. As I recall, they've had sales in the past of 35% or so, which - I think - would have been a greater bargain as the original pair combined.

Perhaps one final point to make about all this - there's actually very little discuss here EXCEPT the marketing. No new features, same samples. The marketing, the new bigger GUI and the perceived value of the new package is about all there is to talk about, as far as I can tell.

[Tanuj Tiku]

I wrote a half decent reply and then my cell lost connection to this site... talk about first world problems :-O

Lawrence, is this correct.
I do not mean to be bantering (is that the right word) so please don't take this the wrong way.

But, what you are saying is that companies that sell samples are not allowed to promote their products any other way than to include a picture with facts/specs about the product.
All else has something negative before "marketing".
If so, aren't we all in the "smoke and mirrors" business, don't we enjoy that kind of sh*t, and even if not what's wrong with a company to post a video basically saying that "something is coming..."
As far as I know they never said that something new is coming or even that something including samples is coming.

I'm still waiting for that book about Spitfire to get released, I'm the one who should be pissed about this

Tanuj, I paid €173 for my copy of HZ03 - London Soloists, that was with discount. (25% I believe).
If you don't need the Soloist then don't update, the old GUI is just fine.
But don't say that $107 isn't bargain considering the quality and usefulness of the samples AND the fact that some of us paid a lot more for the same content.

Not trying to start a brawl, but I feel that if this is how every Spitfire announcement will turn out then why even bother posting them here.

Kind Regards,

/Anders

Anders, you make a fair point. I am OK to pay $106 for the upgrade. But, what I find a little problematic is that they did not think things through well enough in the first place. Which is why the upgrade is happening.

What I don't like is that they clearly introduced the product as three different parts - used marketing hype at that time as well to sell this idea and repeatedly said that their libraries are going to be modular and that, that was a good thing. Only a few years later to make a complete u-turn and then constraint the users.

I do however understand, now that they have made this decision, there really isn't much else they could have done.

So, I am not complaining big time. Just that I find their direction a bit strange and perhaps they should have planned it better.

On the issue of marketing hype. I don't take huge offence. But, I do get why people feel the way they do. Their marketing is paradoxical. Well, not just them. But, some people remember things.

They said, Hans Zimmer Percussion was made at the highest level, produced by a master composer, with his team involved, best in class etc etc. They took years to develop it. They did use all those things as marketing. But, it all comes crashing down when your product needs an update couple of years in because you did not think it through well enough the first time it seems. At least, that is what I understand from the reason they are giving now for the update. And they are abandoning the modular approach for which too they used huge marketing claims.

So, in the end the users feel a bit bad. As a professional, I have no problem paying for updates as well if they make sense and if they were substantial updates and genuinely made the library better. But paying for an update because they need to fix something at their end, is not my idea of paying for genuine updates.

Having said that, I will upgrade at some point if it makes sense. Right now, in the absence of the mics that I actually use the most does not help the case. Again, christian claimed somewhere that HZ mics were used the most and that is why they released it first.

While in fact, I use the other ones a lot more. Specially Geoff Foster mixes.

Anyway, in the end I hope that things will settle and we can move on from this re-organisation.

[playz123]

Would some kind person please check something out for me? In the HZ Timpani patch of this new library, it appears that CC11 is controlling Releases, NOT Expression (as mentioned in the manual) and CC17, which is supposed to control Releases doesn't appear to be doing anything. Re. CC11, I tried sending it from both an expression pedal and from a controller lane in Cubase, and both times it controlled Releases. CC11 seems to work as expected with the combo and individual patches though.

[playz123]

Many thanks, Anders, for your input and suggestion. Alas, right clicking or 'control' clicking on those controls in the Timpani was one of the first things I tried before posting here, but that does nothing either, and there's no option to change the assigned CC that I can find. In the info bubble it even suggests a controller should have MIDI learn, but unfortunately nothing seems to work.
Yes, please do let me know if you find the same thing next month. I had really just wanted to confirm that others were having the same problem before contacting Spitfire, but may go ahead and do that now anyway. Cheers!

[playz123]

From Spitfire Support:
"This is a known issue that the developers have provided a hotfix for until the next release. Please download this zip https://www.dropbox.com/s/laxqwl7pgrg6i ... I.zip?dl=0 and replace the Hans Zimmer Timpani.nki file with this one."

EDIT: The hotfix file did NOT alter the incorrect CC assignments. HOWEVER, one can now right click on the controls and REASSIGN the settings to the 'correct' ones...e.g. CC11 for Expression. That wasn't possible with the original file.

[Jack Weaver]

Thanks, Frank!

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[playz123]

Thanks, Frank!

.

You are most welcome, Jack. But also please note the additional info I just posted above...after you responded. With the hotfix file, one can now reassign the CCs 'correctly'. But they still need to fix the default settings. I'm going to MIDI learn the correct assignments, and then just resave the file.

[playz123]

And just so others don't have to deal with all this, here's my 'fixed' Timpani.nki file with Response on CC17 (their intent originally) and Expression on CC11, as it should have been. Just replace the original one with this one...and get on with your day!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1cz87lcxxp9of ... i.zip?dl=0

[Jack Weaver]

OK then... double thanks.

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