Spitfire have released a sampled version of the Château d'Hérouville's legendary Steinway B, an instrument with a very distinctive and instantly recognizeable sound, mostly thanks to the recordings Elton John made at the Château with producer Gus Dudgeon.
Château Piano sells for £129/$159/149€.
A 20% introductory offer of £103/$127/119€ is available until August 18th, 2025.
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Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 05, 2025 3:52 pm
by RobS
Lovely sound
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 05, 2025 4:04 pm
by RobS
But… 19GB divided by 8 mics make it 2.3GB per mic, not a ton of samples there
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 05, 2025 5:26 pm
by tack
Posted by SF elsewhere, this piano "has been captured with five dynamic layers and three round robins per note, both with pedal up and pedal down, with the exception of the lowest range (A0-A#1) and highest range (C7-C8) which have two round robins."
That's a little surprising for only 2.5GB per mic, but there it is. My biggest issue with SF pianos is their very poor playability, and I prioritize that above unique sonic qualities. But if you need this sound ...
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 05, 2025 9:37 pm
by Lawrence
Tantalus, meet fruit.
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 06, 2025 11:17 am
by progger
Some fellow piano nerds and I were talking about this one a few days ago... On the one hand, I'm always happy to see more Steinway B VIs out there, and these demos sound very nice. Much respect to Sir Elton, but that connection doesn't particularly do anything for me – but this is clearly a great-sounding piano and certainly VI-worthy.
But on the other hand... It's kind of weird to see OT and Spitfire putting these new pianos out that are so far behind the "standards" for the instrument, including the venerable Garritan CFX, in terms of essential features and playability. These orchestral library developers do strings, etc so very, very well, but the only one that seems genuinely interested in keeping up with the likes of VI Labs, Synthogy, etc is VSL, whose pianos are commendable. (I would love to see a Steinway B VI on the level of Modern D, Ravescroft, or Garritan CFX, but it doesn't seem like there is one yet.) It's odd to see such energy put into an instrument whose velocity layers and playability seem to be so limited.
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 06, 2025 12:40 pm
by tack
progger wrote: ↑Aug 06, 2025 11:17 amBut on the other hand... It's kind of weird to see OT and Spitfire putting these new pianos out that are so far behind the "standards" for the instrument, including the venerable Garritan CFX, in terms of essential features and playability.
I feel like this could be a useful distinction between "sample libraries" and "virtual instruments."
Back in the beforetimes, you'd get a massive dump of raw sample files and arrange them piecemeal in your sequencer and those were most definitely sample libraries. These days, such sample libraries are usually neatly packaged up into some kind of player like Kontakt or UVI and as a result we call them virtual instruments, but I think this does a disservice to products that actually make a serious effort to replicate the instrument's nuances. Sample libraries that manage to play and feel well -- to the extent possible at least given interface limitations -- scale to the level of virtual instruments.
By this definition, every Spitfire piano I own is a decent sample library, but they're very poor virtual instruments. HZP is the most egregious example for me: I was initially wooed by the sound but after the sonic honeymoon period elapsed, I haven't touched it since.
Sometimes a sample library is all you need -- you're producing a track for a particular sound and you're content to futz around with minutiae until you can coax the right sound out of it. But when I sit down at the piano, I'm playing for the inner joy of it, not to replicate a sound, so playability is far more important to me than acoustic perfection.
It took me a regrettable amount of wasted money before I came to realize what I really want are virtual instruments. And even then I'm usually disappointed by the result. Oh god, I'm turning into Piet.
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 06, 2025 3:52 pm
by progger
Those are outstanding points and they voice some things I wish I had! And, certainly, I am SO very grateful I don't have to manually load my Spitfire libraries into a sample player by a different developer and deal with all the issues inevitably arise. I got into recording, production, and VIs many years after the sample CD thing was standard (I was busy learning to play instruments the old fashioned way, for which I'm still exceedingly grateful) and my first real music software (aside from Finale) was Logic in about 2008 or so, so I was immediately spoiled for user interface. Spitfire knows how to record samples well, there's no doubt about it, and their chamber and symphonic strings are my go-to favorites to this day.
Piano, though... companies like UVI and Acousticsamples proved to me that you can make a five-velocity-layer piano VI a marvelous instrument to play if the scripting/implementation is on a high level (Acousticamples Kawai and C7 are some of my very favorites despite their age and limitations). And VI-Labs has set such an incredibly high standard for pianos that I think it's almost unfair at this point. Modern D, Modern U, and Ravenscroft all sound so enormously good – and are equally enjoyable to play! – that I'm a bit bewildered when big-budget developers neglect the performance side of that instrument.
If their primary target demographic is folks programming MIDI into a piano roll, then these might be very appropriate instruments to use, I'm not sure. The sound quality is certainly very good from the demos I've heard.
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 06, 2025 4:56 pm
by Geoff Grace
For me, this has the appeal of a character piano. It has a sound that I like, and I’m confident that I could put it to good use under the right circumstances. I already have a great piano library for my go to, so I don’t need another one; and I have plenty of other good pianos as backups. Nonetheless, I still get interested by pianos that have a unique sound, one that could better serve a specific mood or genre.
Unfortunately, Château Piano isn’t priced like a character piano. Spitfire’s Mrs. Mills Piano could serve as a template for this sort of purchase. It has a specific, useful, niche sound at a great price. If Château Piano is reported to play more like an all-rounder, I may buy it at the current price. Otherwise, I plan to wait until a better sale or until I have a specific use case for it.
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As for Elton John, he was an important influence on my playing at the beginning of his solo career, particularly on 11-17-70 (AKA 17-11-70). I was also very much into Leon Russell (one of Elton’s favorites) at this point. However, by the time Elton John was recording Honky Château at Château d'Hérouville, I was more into progressive rock, jazz fusion, and funk. Even so, I continued to like a lot of his work; so the sound of those recordings means something to me.
If you haven’t heard 11-17-70, I strongly recommend this first of Elton’s live records. He was wailing in that performance! Here’s my favorite song from that recording:
Best,
Geoff
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 07, 2025 9:22 am
by Ashermusic
People here will disagree with me probably (so what else is new?) but I have a half a dozen sampled/modeled pianos that with the right mic position, EQ, compression etc. can sound enough like Elton’s that the sound should satisfy anyone.
With all these sampled/modeled instruments, I simply don’t understand people wanting so badly to get so close to a specific sound that they will spend their money, unless they are wealthy and need tax write offs, trying to get closer than what they already probably can get close to with what they have.
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 07, 2025 9:29 am
by Guy Rowland
Ashermusic wrote: ↑Aug 07, 2025 9:22 amWith all these sampled/modeled instruments, I simply don’t understand people wanting so badly to get so close to a specific sound that they will spend their money, unless they are wealthy and need tax write offs, trying to get closer than what they already probably can get close to with what they have.
As you know, it's a classic marketing trick in our industry. "Abbey Road Plates". Even though rationally people know it won't, there is I think a belief that somehow 1% of the Fab Four's magic will rub off on them if they use it on their vocal chain.
It won't.
A piano is a piano is a piano. Does it sound good / useful and play well for you? Is the resource use okay? Those are the only questions.
Ashermusic wrote: ↑Aug 07, 2025 9:22 amWith all these sampled/modeled instruments, I simply don’t understand people wanting so badly to get so close to a specific sound that they will spend their money, unless they are wealthy and need tax write offs, trying to get closer than what they already probably can get close to with what they have.
As you know, it's a classic marketing trick in our industry. "Abbey Road Plates". Even though rationally people know it won't, there is I think a belief that somehow 1% of the Fab Four's magic will rub off on them if they use it on their vocal chain.
It won't.
A piano is a piano is a piano. Does it sound good / useful and play well for you? Is the resource use okay? Those are the only questions.
All of that is totally true. As a side note though, I went through a period of writing 60’s-70’s Beatle-y tracks and songs. Fab Four was really helpful and totally fun to use. The Abbey Road uprights have a certain authenticity. Sometimes branded plug ins and libraries are useful.
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 07, 2025 3:44 pm
by Piet De Ridder
Ashermusic wrote: ↑Aug 07, 2025 9:22 am
(...) With all these sampled/modeled instruments, I simply don’t understand people wanting so badly to get so close to a specific sound that they will spend their money, unless they are wealthy and need tax write offs, trying to get closer than what they already probably can get close to with what they have.
Sound, or timbre, is every bit as much a musical message as the notes, chords and/or rhythms are. A phrase played on, say, the Emotional Piano sends out a very different musical message than that same phrase played on, for example, the VILabs Modern D. The expressive potential of the NI Claire's timbre is entirely different from that of the ArtVista. It's not about one being better than the other, it's about each of them having a unique voice, capable of communicating musical ideas in a unique way. Some piano parts work, to my ears, best with Galaxy VintageD, while others may require the Ravenscroft in order for the timbral message to match the message which the notes and the musical context conveys (or which the style demands).
I happen to find such things extremely important when choosing sounds for my pieces: the sound — not just from the instruments, but also how things are spatialized and mixed — *has* to fit the identity, character and stylistic idiom of the piece as best as I can make it fit. I spend days on such things: finding just the right-sounding bass drum, just the right bassoon timbre for a particular phrase, find the one horn the timbre of which fits the music better than all other virtual horns I have, pick the strings library that is best capable to translate an idea into the most fitting, most communicative sound, or find that one crash cymbal, among hundreds to choose from, that sounds the most consistent with all my other choices, ...
If Spitfire didn’t have such a poor track record when it comes to virtual pianos, I would already have bought this one because it’s got a timbre and a character that can say and express things which are unique to this piano.
Ashermusic wrote: ↑Aug 07, 2025 9:22 am
(...) With all these sampled/modeled instruments, I simply don’t understand people wanting so badly to get so close to a specific sound that they will spend their money, unless they are wealthy and need tax write offs, trying to get closer than what they already probably can get close to with what they have.
Sound, or timbre, is every bit as much a musical message as the notes, chords and/or rhythms are. A phrase played on, say, the Emotional Piano sends out a very different musical message than that same phrase played on, for example, the VILabs Modern D. The expressive potential of the NI Claire's timbre is entirely different from that of the ArtVista. It's not about one being better than the other, it's about each of them having a unique voice, capable of communicating musical ideas in a unique way. Some piano parts work, to my ears, best with Galaxy VintageD, while others may require the Ravenscroft in order for the timbral message to match the message which the notes and the musical context conveys (or which the style demands).
I happen to find such things extremely important when choosing sounds for my pieces: the sound — not just from the instruments, but also how things are spatialized and mixed — *has* to fit the identity, character and stylistic idiom of the piece as best as I can make it fit. I spend days on such things: finding just the right-sounding bass drum, just the right bassoon timbre for a particular phrase, find the one horn the timbre of which fits the music better than all other virtual horns I have, select the strings library that is better than all others capable to transalte an idea into the best fitting sound, or find that one crash cymbal, among hundreds to choose from, that sounds the most consistent with all my other choices, ...
If Spitfire didn’t have such a poor track record when it comes to virtual pianos, I would already have bought this one because it’s got a timbre and a character that can say and express things which are unique to this piano.
__
I guess in the end it's what matters to you most. For me, it is always way less about me than about my listener, whether it's recording and then performing one of my pop tunes or pleasing a client who is hiring me to compose to media.
As Charles Barkley says often, "I ga-ron-tee you" I can take at least six of mine and tweak the processing and mic positions so that in a recording, 98% of listeners will not be able to single one or the other out as noticeably better or worse.
But admittedly I am a commercial hack, not an "artist" so there is that
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 07, 2025 5:12 pm
by Geoff Grace
I think I fall somewhere in the middle on this debate. If a specific timbre inspires us to do better work, then while the audience may or may not notice the difference in timbre itself, they're more likely to notice the difference it inspired in us.
That said, it's far too easy to spend too much on gear. It's important to weigh how much value it has to us before buying.
Best,
Geoff
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 09, 2025 1:56 am
by mickeyl
tack wrote: ↑Aug 06, 2025 12:40 pm
By this definition, every Spitfire piano I own is a decent sample library, but they're very poor virtual instruments. HZP is the most egregious example for me: I was initially wooed by the sound but after the sonic honeymoon period elapsed, I haven't touched it since.
Can you expand on that? Where is HZP lacking?
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 09, 2025 1:51 pm
by tack
mickeyl wrote: ↑Aug 09, 2025 1:56 am
Can you expand on that? Where is HZP lacking?
It's the standard refrain with sample-based pianos: it's in the pedal behavior. Or in the case of HZP and all Spitfire pianos I own, the complete lack of pedal behavior. No catch pedaling, no repedaling, and no half pedaling.
Many other products at least try to implement one or more of these. Most of the time, at least most of the time for the ones I happen to own, they're implemented poorly or half-baked. For example, it's common for sample libraries to claim to support half pedaling, but they don't support transitioning from full pedal to half pedal, which IMO is a pretty important use case of half pedaling (and the one that matters most to me for my playing style).
I can often tolerate a lack of half pedaling, but no repedaling or catch pedaling is a deal killer to me. Nothing pulls me out of the moment more than some bass or melody note which is supposed to resonate through a bar abruptly vanishing because I was 10ms too slow for my pedal to cross the on/off trigger threshold, even if I had started to pedal before releasing the note.
Anyway, in the case of Spitfire, there's not even an attempt made to simulate pedal behaviors, which makes their pianos thoroughly unenjoyable for me to play on, and if recording it sounds ridiculous until I go in and fiddle with the MIDI events later.
Re: Spitfire / Château Piano
Posted: Aug 10, 2025 12:45 am
by progger
Just to add to all that... The bar for virtual pianos is very, very high thanks to the likes of VI Labs, VSL, Modartt, Synthogy, Galaxy, and Sampletekk. Whether sampled, modeled, or a combination, they take the whole experience of the instrument into account, and it's weird to me that big-budget developers like Spitfire – who I generally really love for orchestral instruments – aren't meeting that bar.
