Room360 - Spatializer

[Linos]

This is interesting. Here is a new spatialization program:

https://room360plugin.com/

It uses Raytracing to create an algorithmic reverberation. You can place your source anywhere on the stage. Choose a radiation pattern for the source. Place a mic setup anywhere in the room. And you define where the walls are. It's pretty simple to use. I am testing the demo, and the results sound very good. It does not color the sound in any way. Here is an overview about the features:




Radiation patterns currently include Omni, Voice, Brass, Woodwinds, and Strings. There are five mic types to choose from. More to follow (hopefully). In case your wondering, Room360 does sync between instances. If you place the VST3 on several tracks, you will see all the sources in every instance.

There is a free demo that is fully functional apart from not saving any changes. Full price is 99$.

I will compare it to my usual reverb setups when I have the time. First results were promising.

[Lawrence]

Any competition to SPAT?

[Markus K]

Looks cool. The choice of microphones is a bit strange imo. But certainly worth to check out.

[Linos]

Only partly, Larry. The concept is similar. However, SPAT is more advanced, has a more refined GUI and offers much greater customisation. Room360 only has a handful of parameters to control. For example, it is not possible to adjust the reverb except through some attributes of the atmosphere (temperature and humidity), and, more importantly, the surface (reflectivity and diffusitivity). You have no control over reverb density, early reflections, wet/dry ratio or RT60. All of these are indirectly influenced by the room you define. The wet/dry ratio, for instance, is affected by the size of the room, the proximity of the microphones to the source and the proximity of the walls. This is more true to reality than what SPAT does. However, it is also less directly controllable.

Fortunately, the results you get straight out of the box sound very good. Simply set the room size, place the source and microphones in the room, and you will achieve good-sounding results. As mentioned, the reverberation is very transparent. There is no colouration of the sound. Yet the result does not sound like a dry source with artificial reverb. If you position the source further back in the room, the close-mic effect vanishes. I haven't tried it with Sample Modeling Brass yet. That will be instructive.

I will also have to test whether you can automate the parameters and whether you can move a source without artefacts while playing. As far as I know, that's unique to SPAT and something that is important to Piet.

Markus, are there any particular microphones that you would like to see implemented? The developer is on VI-C and might be open to suggestions. If you want to eliminate the microphone as a variable as much as possible, you can always just use the omnidirectional microphone. I used the standard SM57 configuration in my earlier test, which sounded fine to me.

[Piet De Ridder]

Sounds very useful and there is a small void in my plug-in toolbox where something like Room360 would certainly fit, but when I tried to demo it (as an AU in Logic) I ran into all sorts of problems, so serious that restarting Logic wasn’t enough to make them go away; I had to restart my Mac. Not a good sign.

Also, neither of the plug-in formats (AU and VST3) is recognized by either Nugen’s SigMod or AudioGridder (haven’t tried Metaplug yet and I won’t because that one takes ages to scan the available plug-ins), so demoing Room360 by hosting it outside of Logic was no option either.

And going the VEPro way, was also not a success because, while the VST3-version of the plug-in seems to load and work nicely as long as VEPro is the active window, the moment you click anywhere on the Logic GUI (making it the active window), Room360, for some reason, immediately starts to crackle and stutter.

All of which makes me wonder if Room360 is perhaps more Windows- than Mac-friendly?

__

[Thomas Mavian]

Interesting, will need to try this one. Reminds me of the old Rayspace from "waybackthen"...

https://www.quikquak.com/prod_rayspace.html

[Linos]

Ryan, the developer, is working on a fix for the issues on Mac.. Hopefully it will run on both platforms soon.

Just a heads up: the price has been reduced to $20 for this weekend only. I'm buying it. Even if it isn't developed any further, I'll still find uses for it.

I was interested in Rayspace Thomas, but unfortunately I found out about it too late when the programme no longer existed. I never got the chance to try it.

I'll post some more thoughts and a short mock-up entirely spatialised with Room360 soon.

[Linos]

Ryan responded to my question about automation, among other things. It's a feature that he wants to add. Stereo sources are coming too, and hopefully mic configurations such as decca trees etc.

I haven't been this excited about a plugin's potential in a long time.

Here are the promised audio demos. I mock-upped the beginning of Josef Suk's Serenade for Strings, Opus 6 with Light and Sound Chamber Strings. The bass pizzicatos are from Berlin Strings. So these have a natural ambience in the recordings. I tried to blend the dry library with this wet pizzicati as a test.

Dry

Dry.mp3

(579 KiB) Downloaded 370 times

With Room360, no other processing:

Room360.mp3

(579 KiB) Downloaded 209 times

For comparison, this is what I used until now. The stage placement is done with Spat Revolution Essential, the tail is provided by Altiverb:

My setup.mp3

(579 KiB) Downloaded 190 times

I went for a more ambient result with Room360 to match the bass pizzicati. For a more direct comparison to my current setup, here is a drier version done with Room360:

Room360 drier.mp3

(579 KiB) Downloaded 172 times

[Thomas Mavian]

Just a heads up: the price has been reduced to $20 for this weekend only. I'm buying it. Even if it isn't developed any further, I'll still find uses for it.

Thanks for the heads up, I took the bait. Haven't had the opportunity to try it out yet.

[Thomas Mavian]

I was interested in Rayspace Thomas, but unfortunately I found out about it too late when the programme no longer existed. I never got the chance to try it.

Rayspace was cool, perhaps not the best reverb but you could "walk around" in the room (and/or corridors) you've setup and it sounded that you were moving around in a room.

I wish I had downloaded the Windows version back then, could probably have run it yet.

[Markus K]

You can get it for 20$ until June 16. Since it is adressed to vi control members maybe you need to click the link there. Don't know. Since the developer promised to address the quirks Piet mentioned I think there is not much to loose to get it.

Thank you Muk for providing this examples. I couldn't say there is one that sounds bad. They are just different. The plugin certainly is useful.

Regarding the mics. Despite the fact that Sm 57 are omnipresent on every stage and studio it would be the last choice imo to use for this kind of application where you want some highend clean sound I would say. Rather Schoeps or Neumann or ribbons as alternative. I'm no expert on this but have made enough recordings in various circumstances and never ever a Sm57 was used for acoustic instruments. Only for amps of guitars or drumsets something like that. And there you don't really need a plugin like that I think. But I could be totally wrong about it as well.

[Linos]

Thanks, Markus. The Room360 examples were quick and easy to achieve. The Spat and Altiverb setup is more complex, and it's giving me some headaches. The main problem is that SPAT looses the connections sometimes — I'm not sure exactly why — and I then have to reroute and reconnect all the instruments and reposition them on the stage. This doesn't happen often enough for me to completely ditch the programm. But it happens regularly enough to be a nuisance. I guess I will replace it with Room360 just for that reason alone.

Thanks for explaining about the SM57. For now, I am using the omnidirectional option. Ryan wants to add more mic options and mic groups, which would allow you to set up Decca trees and other configurations in the plugin. Until then, the omni option works for me.

Once you have familiarised yourself with Room360, it becomes apparent that its usability and set of functions are not yet fully matured. The reverberation, however, is very much so. What I mean is that the program can be awkward to use at times. For example, when I try to adjust the rotation of a source, I often end up in the naming field because the two are positioned directly above each other. To reliably select one or the other, you have to zoom in on the source quite a bit. Placing the walls is also somewhat imprecise, as it's essentially freehand drawing on a grid. You can't rotate a wall without changing its length. It's difficult to draw anything but a square with any precision.

In terms of functionality, we've already mentioned stereo sources, as well as more mic options, mic configurations, and dispersion patterns. It would also be useful to be able to route microphones to different outputs. For example, we could have close mics on one channel, a Decca tree on another and room mics on a third. It would also be useful to have more advanced features for creating and sharing rooms between users. Ryan mentioned creating a database of wall materials to choose from. However, that would be a lot of work for him, and he sounded as if he was already pretty busy with support and troubleshooting.

If these features were added further down the line, Room360 could become a genuine alternative to SPAT. Even in its current form, it's already a serious spatialisation tool and well worth the $20 it currently costs.

[Linos]

Here is a quick test with SampleModeling brass. It's three horns and the tuba. It should be trombones, but I don't have them.

SampleModeling dry

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling dry.mp3

(884.25 KiB) Downloaded 157 times

SampleModeling with Room360

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling Room360.mp3

(884.25 KiB) Downloaded 142 times

There is some eq on the instruments, which is also present in the dry example. Apart from that, there is no other processing here than Room360 and a limiter to bring up the levels.

I will be using Room360 a lot when working with dry samples.

[RobS]

Interesting, will need to try this one. Reminds me of the old Rayspace from "waybackthen"...

https://www.quikquak.com/prod_rayspace.html

I was reminded of Rayspace too... this one sounds better though

[RobS]

Here is a quick test with SampleModeling brass. It's three horns and the tuba. It should be trombones, but I don't have them.

SampleModeling dry

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling dry.mp3

SampleModeling with Room360

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling Room360.mp3

There is some eq on the instruments, which is also present in the dry example. Apart from that, there is no other processing here than Room360 and a limiter to bring up the levels.

I will be using Room360 a lot when working with dry samples.

sounds good indeed. Can the horns be moved back still a bit? Now it's like we're 5 meters from them.

[Linos]

sounds good indeed. Can the horns be moved back still a bit? Now it's like we're 5 meters from them.

Wow, that's a good guess! I placed them about 6.5 metres from the microphone, and the tuba was positioned slightly further away.

Sure thing. Here they are at a distance of about 10 metres from the microphones.

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling Room360 10m.mp3

(884.25 KiB) Downloaded 96 times

Bear in mind that this example should be quieter because the instruments are further away. I have compensated for this, so that all the examples are at the same volume. However, this cancels out one of the effects that makes us perceive sounds as being distant.

Here is the same setup, but with more reflective walls:

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling Room360 10m reverberant.mp3

(884.25 KiB) Downloaded 158 times

These adjustments can be made quickly, as information is shared between instances. For example, I could select all the instruments in one instance and move them back. Similarly, I could adjust the reflectivity of the walls in one instance and this was updated automatically in the others.

[RobS]

sounds good indeed. Can the horns be moved back still a bit? Now it's like we're 5 meters from them.

Wow, that's a good guess! I placed them about 6.5 metres from the microphone, and the tuba was positioned slightly further away.

Sure thing. Here they are at a distance of about 10 metres from the microphones.

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling Room360 10m.mp3

Bear in mind that this example should be quieter because the instruments are further away. I have compensated for this, so that all the examples are at the same volume. However, this cancels out one of the effects that makes us perceive sounds as being distant.

Here is the same setup, but with more reflective walls:

Nabucco Overture - Sample Modeling Room360 10m reverberant.mp3

These adjustments can be made quickly, as information is shared between instances. For example, I could select all the instruments in one instance and move them back. Similarly, I could adjust the reflectivity of the walls in one instance and this was updated automatically in the others.

yes! That's more or less how I'd expect horns to sound in orchestra, in an empty hall. It may be useful to try adding a number of little "walls" around the instruments and behind the mics, to simulate the bodies of the musicians and an audience...

[Linos]

That's a good idea. You could also reduce the reflectivity of the walls to achieve a damping effect. At least the wall behind the French Horns, where the bell points at. If you reduce the reflectivity there, it will dampen the sound quite a bit. You could also experiment with mic placement, and the polar pattern of the mics that you choose. I have chosen three omnis in a decca tree setup. These pick up the most reflections.

[RobS]

couldn't resist, did a hall with a number of little walls and positioned a horn, oboe and a flute. It sounds much less reflective, but natural enough. I think it can work, considering the plugin is still in an early stage. Here's a screenshot

and audio:

360.mp3

(2.02 MiB) Downloaded 83 times

[Lawrence]

Best I’ve heard outside of SPAT.

[Linos]

Very cool Rob. That sounds good to me.

[RobS]

I'm rather surprised that even if it makes every source mono, it doesn't generate too many phase issues...