The Sound Board

Is it my impression that on this forum most members don’t have that much affinity for Performance Samples products?

He just released a new, limited in application, woodwinds library
https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific-woodwinds/

Whilst I am not interested in this library myself atm, the pacific solo and new vista 2 libraries I follow with interest.

When Performance Samples announce upcoming libraries, I am often intrigued. Then, when the libraries are released, there has always been at least one deal breaker for me. So I don't own any of their libraries. I was interested in Pacific Solo Violin and Cello. The demos sounded really good. But then the libraries came out and the instruments only have one dynamic layer. That's too limiting for me.

With Pacific Woodwinds, why did they record everything a-due only? It's much better to have two individual flutes instead of one a-due patch. If I want my flutes to play a-due, I simply layer the two solo flutes. I've never done a blind test, but I'd be surprised if it sounded much different than an a-due-patch. With a-due-patches only, what do you do if you want the standard double woodwind orchestration? Have a solo line played by two players? That's something you can hear, even in the context of a mockup. I don't understand why all sample developers record these a-due-patches instead of giving us two individual players. It wouldn't be more work for them, and it would be a much more flexible library.

So with Pacific Woodwinds, having only a-due-patches is again a deal breaker for me. I didn't understand the concept in the Sonokinetic Woodwind Ensembles. I don't understand it here.

Yeah, feel similar. Sort of in two minds about this. On one hand, I think Performance Samples is one of the most interesting developers at the moment, and their libraries really stick out in how effortlessly they sound like they're playing actual music. So alive and musical compared to most other offerings. But I usually end up skipping on them anyway for one reason or other. Like, I was on the fence but ultimately skipped on Pacific Strings partly because of the overly slidey legato which I really didn't like. Now I'm ambivalent about the woodwinds because I also really prefer solo instruments. Not crazy about the hall sound on some of those recordings. The solo strings sounded good but I very rarely need that particular thing, etc.

In fact, the only one I actually own is the original Vista - which I think is absolutely fantastic at that one specific thing that it does. I will almost certainly be buying Vista II when it arrives.

Of course, to a large degree this also boils down to simple economics. I don't think the libraries are overpriced per se, but I just don't have an overabundance of time or money to throw around these days, and as such, it's hard to justify new purchases given all the libraries that I already have. Especially libraries aimed at somewhat more niche uses cases.

I am tempted though. The intro/loyalty pricing is usually very generous.

scherzo wrote: ↑Nov 23, 2024 11:13 am Yeah, feel similar. Sort of in two minds about this. On one hand, I think Performance Samples is one of the most interesting developers at the moment, and their libraries really stick out in how effortlessly they sound like they're playing actual music. So alive and musical compared to most other offerings. But I usually end up skipping on them anyway for one reason or other. Like, I was on the fence but ultimately skipped on Pacific Strings partly because of the overly slidey legato which I really didn't like. Now I'm ambivalent about the woodwinds because I also really prefer solo instruments. Not crazy about the hall sound on some of those recordings. The solo strings sounded good but I very rarely need that particular thing, etc.

This is also my overall feeling. I own many of Performance Samples' libraries. The original Vista sees a lot of use for that extremely lyrical and smooth legato. Same with Con Moto, they do that one thing really well.

The Pacific range is definitely a bit polarizing. I quite like it and used it often. But then again, one of my main complaints is spending time and effort massaging MIDI data to get a decent-sounding performance out of most libraries. Even with my workhorse, Cinematic Studio Series, there's plenty of work involved in stitching things together. Pacific doesn't do away with this tedium, but it does relieve it significantly. They nearly play like modeled instruments.

The a2 philosophy in the Woodwinds is disappointing, I agree. As was the complete lack of legato in the Brass (which I also use very often). But it is all more than workable - it just depends on what kind of piece you're writing with it. I like switching up libraries for specific tracks, and I enjoy the reasonably good consistency between instruments. It's not Cinematic Studio Series-level good, but it is quite consistent overall.

And in regards to Pacific Strings, yes, that top layer Portamento can be quite annoying, but the are two caveats:
1. it can be remedied within contact with a bit of tinkering (haven't done it yet, but intend to)
2. it can actually sound good if layered with a library that lacks portamento, getting a sort of sound where half the players use it and the other half do not.

Luciano Storti wrote: ↑Nov 23, 2024 12:44 pm The Pacific range is definitely a bit polarizing. I quite like it and used it often. But then again, one of my main complaints is spending time and effort massaging MIDI data to get a decent-sounding performance out of most libraries. Even with my workhorse, Cinematic Studio Series, there's plenty of work involved in stitching things together. Pacific doesn't do away with this tedium, but it does relieve it significantly. They nearly play like modeled instruments.

That actually sounds very appealing to me right now. I used to think I had near infinite amounts of patience with midi massages, but lately I'm finding it more and more of a tedious chore. So much time and effort, and often for results that are often just kind of... okay-ish at best.

My experience with Vista is that it has a very strong character that is either right for the part or completely wrong, and not a lot in between. But when it works, it really works and does so with very little effort. Having a wider selection of niche libraries in that vein might not be such a bad thing after all. Sometimes I'm kicking myself for not jumping on the Pacific Strings train during the intro period - minor gripes about the legato and hall sound aside, I'm sure that if I had it, I would find good use for it. Still tempted, but even with the current sale ($499), it's just too much money for me to spend on another library. Not at the current exchange rate.

But if I were starting from scratch today, I would be all in on Performance Samples and the Cinematic Studio Series. One for vibe and character, the other for your everyday bread and butter.

Listening to the woodwind demos again today. Sounds nice. Intro price is very reasonable. But how often do I really need unison woodwind lines? Slightly more often than never I suppose, but $99 often?

(Then again, it could be worse - at least PS isn't asking us to spend €249 on flutes a2 alone. Purely hypothetical example of course.)

These days I am ONLY interested in libraries that largely get me what I want by how I play them.

The problem is that they tend to be expensive. I would own every single AcousticSamples library instead of just the saxes and brass if I could justify the expense, because they are such a pleasure to work with. Ditto for Kirk Hunter’s Concert Strings Adaptive.

But since I have great libraries for the rest already and I am getting little paid work, I simply cannot justify the cost of transitioning almost exclusively to “you get what you play” libraries.

scherzo wrote: ↑Nov 24, 2024 5:27 am My experience with Vista is that it has a very strong character that is either right for the part or completely wrong, and not a lot in between. But when it works, it really works and does so with very little effort. Having a wider selection of niche libraries in that vein might not be such a bad thing after all. Sometimes I'm kicking myself for not jumping on the Pacific Strings train during the intro period - minor gripes about the legato and hall sound aside, I'm sure that if I had it, I would find good use for it. Still tempted, but even with the current sale ($499), it's just too much money for me to spend on another library. Not at the current exchange rate.

This is also my experience with Vista. This is not, however, how I view Pacific, either singles or as a line. It's supposed to be more of a bread and butter approach, a different color of a complete orchestra. I need that even just for my sanity: I've used CSS so much in the last years, that it had started to feel stale. So out came EW Hollywood Series again, LASS, Cinesamples, etc. Many times they're layered, or used just in some passages, but it's enough to provide a different size and color for me.

If you don't need that sort of thing, I think you're alright not jumping on the train at this point and rather holding out for Vista II, which seems to be shaping up to be everything Pacific isn't.

scherzo wrote: ↑Nov 24, 2024 5:27 am (Then again, it could be worse - at least PS isn't asking us to spend €249 on flutes a2 alone. Purely hypothetical example of course.)

Indeed. That would be quite daft.

Interesting. Actually the way you describe Pacific does have me a little intrigued. At the moment I don't really have a main workhorse library per se and usually end up using some bizarre combination of libraries, which can easily devolve into a rather time-consuming (and sanity-challenging ) affair. So in theory, if Pacific - or some other contender - manages to cover the basics well enough to cut down on some of that tediousness, that would be of interest.

I dunno though. For now I think the sane and responsible thing is to wait for Vista II to arrive. I think that's the one for me - the demos all sound brilliant and much more to my liking in terms of tone and space, and the list of included content is quite terrifying, in a good way.

I don't keep up with all the forum chatter these days - has there been any word on when it might be released? The site just vaguely says "no earlier than Q3 2024" which has obviously already passed. Guessing some time next year then.

Having heard your mockup work, I would agree with waiting for Vista II. Pacific as your only workhorse (am I breaking the definition of that word?) might be a bit frustrating, beautiful as it is (2 Mic positions can be limiting as well if you don't particularly like the hall). I'm likely to go for Vista II as well when it releases. And on that, I wouldn't count on it being here before mid-2025, considering the numerous delays with other libraries so far.