The Sound Board

I know SPAT has a lot of love round here. I don't know how useful / good the cut down Revolution is, but it's $99 from Don't Crack until September 6th.

https://www.flux.audio/project/spat-revolution/

https://store.dontcrack.com/product_inf ... ts_id=4020

Lots of other FLUX products on sale too - https://www.dontcrack.com/promotions.php?bid=54

Hmm. What will it do SPAT-wise, is it viable for my late model Intel chip, is it operationally dicey. Questions, questions.

The limitation of 'Essential' is that it processes only 32 channels (= 16 stereo channels), if I am not mistaken. My main concern is the workflow though. It's not a VST, but a standalone program that connects to your DAW through an audio driver. The processed audio is then routed back to your DAW, where you have to record the input. Frankly, it's a mess. If you have to deliver stems it gets endlessly complicated. And if you want to have three channels for every instrument ('close', 'room', 'ambient'), that's impossible with Spat Revolution.

Linos wrote: ↑Aug 02, 2024 9:53 amMy main concern is the workflow though. It's not a VST, but a standalone program that connects to your DAW through an audio driver.

Agreed. With all the gushing Piet has done about SPAT over the years I got very close on a couple of occasions to pulling the trigger, but once Revolution was released and I saw the workflow, that desire died on the vine.

Then there's the iLok requirement, which is nowadays for me a deal killer. Based on Microsoft's behavior the past couple years, it feels like a migration to Linux is an inevitability for me. (Or back to Linux, I should say, because I've been a Linux desktop user since 1994 until I switched my main PC to Windows for the VI ecosystem.) And while I can run certain things through emulation, copy protection schemes like iLok isn't one of them. Unfortunately this also means Codemeter, so Virharmonic will have to go too.

But based on what I'm seeing Microsoft doing to Windows 11 (Copilot being a good example), Windows 10 is the end of the road for me. I'll run it for as long as I can, but then I'm off. So I don't want to accumulate new things I can't run.

I think Piet was pretty negative about getting Revolution working smoothly as well (?)

I haven't had much success with Revolution, no. I keep trying every few months but always with the same disappointing results: the thing doesn't work. (I'm about to try again, this time with the aid of Audiomovers' Omnibus — inter-application audio patch-bay — of which I downloaded a demo.)

The only reason I can think of to buy SPAT Revolution at this reduced price, would be so that you have the software. And then hope that, someday, Flux:: manages to turn this into a tool that works, reliably.

However, if I recall correctly, I believe that Daryl has got SPAT Revolution working. In combination with Nuendo, I seem to remember. See, I'm working with Logic and the reason SPAT Revolution refuses to shake hands with it, might well be entirely Logic's fault. I don't know, but with Logic (and other Apple software) being as miserable as it currently is, that wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Then again, seeing how Flux:: appears to be reorienting itself over the past few years, it seems they're no longer much interested in people like us. Their main target market now appears to be sophisticated high-end immersive live audio, advanced post-production and fields like that. No longer the musician who wants to spatialize, say, the SampleModelling Trumpet, in other words.

Boy, I'm sooo glad I can still work with the old SPAT v3.

__

(and, of course, spatializing The Trumpet and Vienna Winds is exactly why I’d like to use Revolution if it worked.)

I picked it up after getting more and more frustrated with Spat V3 (the old version is now crashing Studio One 2 out of every 3 times I try to load a project using it). Setup was a bit head scratching, but I've got it working and it is vastly improved on the older version from a user interface perspective. Sound wise it is identical to the older version. Having Spat sit outside of the DAW is giving me significantly better performance than the VST version (Spat V3 was using up about 30 - 40 % of my cpu when being fed 9 inputs). Revolution scales correctly on 4K monitors which was very annoying for v3. Also, since it now sits as send and return plugins I can use all 32 channels into a single instance and it is much easier to route the inputs.

I'm happy to help anyone who is trying to set it up (I only have Cubase/Nuendo and Studio One however).

Here's an example of a song I've been using it on where I have a full woodwind section from Acoustic Samples, a stereo piano and a twin mic violin all being processed by spat:

Well, that sounds hopeful. Are you using it in Cubase Mac, Zee? What are the complications of setup?

Doesn't using it as sends obviate the reason to have it (various distance/depth for instruments or sections)?

Lawrence wrote: ↑Aug 02, 2024 6:40 pm Well, that sounds hopeful. Are you using it in Cubase Mac, Zee? What are the complications of setup?

Doesn't using it as sends obviate the reason to have it (various distance/depth for instruments or sections)?

I'm on PC so can't help you there. The setup is a bit unintuitive, but once I figured out what was needed it's pretty straight forward. When I say send and return, I mean the way your DAW talks to Spat Revolution. Spat Revolution is a stand-alone application, and you have a send plugin that sends audio in and a return plugin that takes the output from Spat and feeds it back into your DAW. You can set the send plugin to also mute the audio stream or pass it through so you can go 100% wet or a mixture.

It’s worth a $99 gamble for me, but I’m curious about this one question-if I get it working, should I be able to spatialize my samples in a way that’s similar to SPAT3?

@ZeeCount What does the second instance of rectangles do in your picture? Why does 'Flute 1' go to 'Flute 1' and then to 'Room'? And if I read the image correctly, you only get a stereo return to your DAW. Is that correct? So you get just one spatialised return for all the instruments you feed into Spat Revolution. If that is how it works, then all the mixing has to be done before the signals are fed into Spat. And there is no way to get stems out of Spat because it mixes all the input signals together.
That rules it out as a tool I can work with. It's far too specific, with no flexibility at all. It might be the right workflow for sound installations and the like. To mix orchestral music, I would have to set up and record one instance of Spat after another to get all the necessary stems.

Lawrence wrote: ↑Aug 03, 2024 3:27 am It’s worth a $99 gamble for me, but I’m curious about this one question-if I get it working, should I be able to spatialize my samples in a way that’s similar to SPAT3?

I am interested in your results! I've been doing some serious fence sitting on this one.

wst3 wrote: ↑Aug 03, 2024 1:30 pm

Lawrence wrote: ↑Aug 03, 2024 3:27 am It’s worth a $99 gamble for me, but I’m curious about this one question-if I get it working, should I be able to spatialize my samples in a way that’s similar to SPAT3?

I am interested in your results! I've been doing some serious fence sitting on this one.

Unless it’s like Linos described, which is how I fear it works.

It is. Mixing needs to happen pretty much within SPATRev. Levels should go out to it properly beforehand, and the mixing environment in SPAT itself is not really to my liking either, personally. And yes, stems can be an issue. I've even considered bouncing SPAT onto the track before deciding the whole thing just wasn't worth the hassle. Flux might very well have imposed a workflow that doesn't suit our way of working here.

But the deal breaker for me, like with Piet: I just can't get it to work reliably with Logic.

Linos wrote: ↑Aug 03, 2024 8:29 am @ZeeCount What does the second instance of rectangles do in your picture? Why does 'Flute 1' go to 'Flute 1' and then to 'Room'? And if I read the image correctly, you only get a stereo return to your DAW. Is that correct? So you get just one spatialised return for all the instruments you feed into Spat Revolution. If that is how it works, then all the mixing has to be done before the signals are fed into Spat. And there is no way to get stems out of Spat because it mixes all the input signals together.

The first set of rectangles are input channels, the second set are sources. The sources are what are fed into the room simulation (which are fed by the inputs in turn). In essential you only have one room, so yes you only get the single stereo return from SPAT with all the sources spatiliased together. If you want to export stems you would have to do the method of muting sources that you don't need etc.

Thank you ZeeCount. Spat v3 was so flexible in comparison to this. It's sad that IRCAM has restricted our options so much. Spat Revolution could be fine on smaller projects with few instruments. In an orchestral setting I don't see a place for it. It would be too time consuming to use.