The Sound Board

About a week late on this news:

https://timesnewsexpress.com/news/finan ... musicians/

The short version is that ROLI is no more, but they are starting a new company called Luminary to "focus on beginner musicians" (they have a pretty light-up keyboard to help you learn).

Thanks for the heads up.
Wonder if the prices of Roli branded seaboards will explode as most vintage gear has
/Anders

lofi wrote: ↑Sep 07, 2021 1:42 pm Thanks for the heads up.
Wonder if the prices of Roli branded seaboards will explode as most vintage gear has
/Anders

I bought a Seaboard Rise 25 for £ 300 a couple of years ago.

When you can find them they seem to being sold for around £ 700 ....

Oh that is a real shame. Such great innovation.

I wonder if they'll still service old units?

My observations do not match the general thought that great innovation (in technology) do pay off and are the main reason for companies thriving. That is just one of the myths that the current system keeps spreading in order to justify itself.

Innovation is all well and good an all, but it has to also be A Good And Popular Thing in and of itself. I know there were real seaboard devotees out there, I get why, but it always remained pretty niche. And I think part of the reason for that is that they felt like a dead whale. At a trade show I touched one, once, and it was like slipping on the ring of Sauron. I backed away, sweating and panicked, knowing I could never return.

Also I can never unsee its appearance in La La Land, when the obnoxious Gosling character is playing it at a gig, and it really didn’t help.

Feel bad for the company though. And I bet it’ll be a cult classic now. The Delorean of keyboards.

Guy Rowland wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022 2:11 pm Innovation is all well and good an all, but it has to also be A Good And Popular Thing in and of itself. I know there were real seaboard devotees out there, I get why, but it always remained pretty niche. And I think part of the reason for that is that they felt like a dead whale. At a trade show I touched one, once, and it was like slipping on the ring of Sauron. I backed away, sweating and panicked, knowing I could never return.

For me the one thing that held me off was the price tag.

Well, for one thing: I could easily dream up a perfect DAW for film composers and nothing in it would be really new technology. Yet, no single DAW exists that is even close to what I can think up in my head. You can ask yourself, why did the market not yet spit out a product of that category that is even close to what people can think up?

The answer to me is: being successful isn't so much about making the best product, but about making money with it. If your product is REALLY bad, maybe it will fail at some point. But generally speaking, today other skills and tactics are way more relevant than innovation! Most of them have to do with marketing. That's why I find it misleading to think that companies mostly get big by being very innovative. Innovative at making money? Yes! But not necessarily at creating the most innovative solutions for the customer. Just enough goodness and innovation to stopp the customer from moving to the competition.

ROLI was in my mind really founded by someone who wanted to be an innovator. I also don't think the Seaboard was necessarily the best device of its kind. But it was the first in a time where people were mostly buying the cheapest plastic keyboards that asian factories could produce. Without ROLI there wouldn't be MPE and hardly any of the devices that recently came up using MPE.

Most people were not ready to spend a lot for such a new device. nobody really knew if this wouldn't collect dust. Also, the software was not ready for MPE and some are not even MPE-ready today. The only mistake that ROLI did was selling an instrument that is to far from the mechanics of keyboard playing while still trying to sell it to keyboard players and assuming to sell lots of units! I also tried one a some trade show and I immediately noticed that none of my piano chops did help much at playing this device. Somehow, even the Haken Continuum (I tried that the same day) felt more natural compared to the seaboard.

In the end, both Seaboard and Continuum are niche instruments, but while Haken Audio still builds their devices in small numbers in some kind of backyard garage company, ROLI tried to become the Apple of music and there simply was no potential for that big of a company for these kinds of devices. They should have been more modest and patient with that.

Maybe Osmose can win more adaptors, because it seems to be easier for keyboard players to learn. I would really appreciate an innovative device to become a mass product.

Looking forward to Osmose

https://www.expressivee.com/2-osmose

I think the main problem with the ROLI is (although they improved this somewhat between the original and the Rise series), that the surface gives in too much to finger pressure, so it's easy to get stuck in the Neoprene-ish surface, which is a turn-off for (obviously too) many.
Instant gratification, not so much.
Having said that, I (distantly) know a really proficient keyboard player, who adapted his technique relatively quickly and got very convincing results (disregarding style, but that's beyond the point here). I remember him mentioning that he applied for the job as a ROLI demonstrator and learned the instrument in a couple of days before flying to London (and getting the gig).

There is also the Touchkeys project with keyboard overlays, but they only do (yearly?) batches that sell out quickly, and with the DIY kits, installation seems quite finicky (like putting protective glasses on smartphones but per key ;-) and a hole for the extra USB has to be drilled.

sphinx wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2022 3:44 amHaving said that, I (distantly) know a really proficient keyboard player, who adapted his technique relatively quickly and got very convincing results (disregarding style, but that's beyond the point here). I remember him mentioning that he applied for the job as a ROLI demonstrator and learned the instrument in a couple of days before flying to London (and getting the gig).

Sounds like Marco Parisi.

sphinx wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2022 3:44 am There is also the Touchkeys project with keyboard overlays, but they only do (yearly?) batches that sell out quickly, and with the DIY kits, installation seems quite finicky (like putting protective glasses on smartphones but per key ;-) and a hole for the extra USB has to be drilled.

I have a Novation 49 with the touchkeys applied. I bought the set during their initial run on kickstarter and applied it myself. Works pretty well. However, the glued touchsurfaces are pretty sharp around the edges. So, it doesn't feel like playing a refined keyboard at all. Also, the pressure aspect is missing here (except for the monophonic aftertouch of the Novation).

I think, it is those two feature together that makes sense for most applications: very sensitive aftertouch (if you need to much pressure, your playing will suffer greatly and your fingers will wear out at some point) and the ability to control vibrato by wiggling your hand (only makes sense for one voice per hand, of course). I got that (almost) perfect aftertouch with my Kurzweil Midiboard and the vibrato wiggling with the touchkeys. But I wouldn't want to ruin the fine keyboard of the Kurzweil with any Touchkeys glued to it!

That is why my bets are the Osmose will be pretty good, as it brings these two (and more) together. I am not going to buy it anywhere soon, though, as with conventional samples it is rather limited what you can achieve with these kinds of controllers. And using sample modelling and similar VSTis has other limitations as we all know ... I guess my enthusiasm for this direction has somewhat stagnated by experience, although I am still fascinated!

EvilDragon wrote: ↑Jan 17, 2022 4:08 am Sounds like Marco Parisi.

No, it's an Austrian prog-metal/fusion keyboarder called Gerald Peter, you can find quite a few examples of his playing on YT.

And Herr v. Flotow, thank you so much for your firsthand (literally) info on the Touchkeys, as hard to come by as the product itself.
The online demos seemed so promising, even with imitative VIs…

Congrats on the MidiBoard, I only played it once in my life and it remains a very fond memory to me.
Did it supersede the custom Doepfer board/desk that you had made last year (I seem to remember the thread on MS)?

sphinx wrote: ↑Jan 17, 2022 3:06 pm And Herr v. Flotow, thank you so much for your firsthand (literally) info on the Touchkeys, as hard to come by as the product itself.
The online demos seemed so promising, even with imitative VIs…

Congrats on the MidiBoard, I only played it once in my life and it remains a very fond memory to me.
Did it supersede the custom Doepfer board/desk that you had made last year (I seem to remember the thread on MS)?

I actually built that Keyboard drawer myself, but that is not in my studio. That is at home. My studio is in a cellar, so, there naturally is no sunlight there. That is why I try doing some things at home, as I don't want to spend to much time underground. That is why I bought that Doepfer PK88 and did some woodworking project over the holidays last year.

I wouldn't recommend the Doepfer (at least the PK-88) at this point, as the velocity response is not really suitable for piano playing. My reason for getting it was, I wanted something decent under the fingers for playing and improvising while writing scores in the notation program. It is ok for that purpose, but it really did not meet my expectations in relation to its price. However, I wrote Doepfer about my problems and to my surprise they did agree with my assessment of the unsuitable velocity repose and were willing to do something about it for me and probably also for future units being sold. They are pretty close to Munich, so I am a good test candidate for them. I could even drive the keyboard in, if necessary. But last time I heard from them, they said it is gonna take some more time due to the trouble they have due to chip shortage. I guess until summer, I will be able to say more.

The Kurzweil is a very special keyboard and it is the center of my studio. It is not the very best for playing piano, as its action is more like Rhodes: lighter compared to a real grand. But it still works pretty well for that, too! It is very responsive and reliable to velocity and the aftertouch is like no other I ever encountered: you can set it so that the aftertouch begins immediately when you play the note and it is not very hard to reach the full value of 127. That makes it suitable to e.g. control amplitude and filter on a strings synth patch and really shape the dynamic of each voice. No aftertouch I ever tried is so sensitive except for something like the Haken Continuum - but that is not even a keyboard!

i was looking for the software download for my roli block, and it seems like the seaboard is going to be relaunched:

https://roli.com/

thats cool, and i wish the new company luck

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2022 10:00 am Looking forward to Osmose

https://www.expressivee.com/2-osmose

It’s been quite the wait.
The EaganMatrix sounds amazing.
Been on the list since late 2019.
Excited
/Anders

Kuusniemi wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022 2:36 pm

Guy Rowland wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022 2:11 pm Innovation is all well and good an all, but it has to also be A Good And Popular Thing in and of itself. I know there were real seaboard devotees out there, I get why, but it always remained pretty niche. And I think part of the reason for that is that they felt like a dead whale. At a trade show I touched one, once, and it was like slipping on the ring of Sauron. I backed away, sweating and panicked, knowing I could never return.

For me the one thing that held me off was the price tag.

+1.

After all the off-topic (Osmose) - back on topic:

Goodbye ROLI ... and hello ROLI!



Feels like the last Spiderman reboot. Filming of the new series almost started before canceling of the old one ...

Looking forward to the release of this new model this month.

Looks like ROLI are the new "string library" to you ...

FriFlo wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2022 5:20 am Looks like ROLI are the new "string library" to you ...

Preordered a ROLI Seaboard 2.

It will ship in November.

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Mar 30, 2022 1:15 pm

FriFlo wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2022 5:20 am Looks like ROLI are the new "string library" to you ...

Preordered a ROLI Seaboard 2.

It will ship in November.

See! I knew it ...