To save all that clicking, here's the full Twiiter thread in readable form.
Hello all, For many of you this is the announcement you have been waiting for. While we put our heart and soul into developing ground-breaking products in your best interests, we haven’t accomplished our promise to provide you with the user experience you deserve in every part of Steinberg’s technologies in recent time.
We have been listening to your feedback for years, but significant changes need time, and we had to carefully lay out our vision for the future. But now the time has come to put our approach to license management at the center of our attention.
We have decided to adopt a new license management technology that everyone will benefit from to prepare for coming requirements.An authorization system shouldn’t get in your way, but support you in the onboarding process.
Anti-piracy protection technology shouldn’t restrict you as the customer, but secure your investment. A license management shouldn’t stop you from using your products, but enable you to be creative, whenever and wherever you are. At this point in time, all we can tell you is that everyone at Steinberg is strongly committed to providing you as soon as possible with a solution that offers more flexibility, more reliability and, of course, a seamless migration.
It’s too early to announce details on the schedule or the new environment, but one thing is for sure: The future will be dongle-free.
The Steinberg Team
And I give that a cautious Hallelujah.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 05, 2021 3:02 pm
by Jaap
I cried a little
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 05, 2021 4:13 pm
by kpc
Looks like VSL is moving to iLok.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 05, 2021 5:43 pm
by Guy Rowland
kpc wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2021 4:13 pm
Looks like VSL is moving to iLok.
Ooh have they said that? I haven't heard. ReFx dropped eLicenser last year. And does that mean that eLicenser will be no more? And that raises a question of longevity of older versions and products... will it always be possible to migrate anything regardless of its age to a new system?
I realise these questions aren't answerable and we're a way off, but it doesn't take much to realise how complex this is likely to be.
This stood out - "For every registered product in your VSL account, you will receive an iLok license. You will NOT be asked to return or delete any of your existing licenses on the eLicenser". So... is this essentially a free extra license? I could put one set on iLok Cloud for the laptop and keep the eLicenser on the PC?
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 05, 2021 6:30 pm
by Lawrence
WOW. This is some majorly major news.
Personally, I haven't been bothered by elicenser or iLok going back many years-but I've never bought protection for either, so this move by Steinberg will remove some nervousness. VSL-depends-will they keep the same policy of making you pay through the nose for a lost or damaged iLok? See, I think the reason VSL is probably doing it is that (I believe) eLicenser is Steinberg tech and Steinberg's going to kill it.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 05, 2021 7:03 pm
by kpc
That was my thought, too, Larry. Steinberg is ending eLicenser so VSL is making a required switch. Not sure about Guys question of keeping two versions. I guess if you don’t upgrade, eLicenser will still function?
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 12:29 am
by Stakk
Seems like a good news. However, if you lose access to your license w/ iLok by keys stopped working (happened to me once, had to literally refregiate it) or a software iLok license gets locked in to a broken computer, it is up to each company's policy to whether they help you. Though, from my experience and what I heard, no company will deny your request or try to charge you.
The problem with VSL was that unlike any other, they were actually asking to pay half the price for each library you own. I am not sure why, maybe it was costly for third-party developers to request a new license from Steinberg - I have no idea and every excuse I heard made no sense at all even from the protecting-the-library standing point. So I had to simply forget about VSL.
I think bigger companies will move to, slowly but overtime, creating their own ecosystem like subscription or integrated product manager (like Native Access or Waves Installation Center) and will try to get customers invested into their own "system". This is nowadays pretty much a standard for graphics software. Rather than an isolated protection scheme like iLok which though still makes sense for smaller developers.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 2:14 am
by lofi
Stakk wrote: ↑Mar 06, 2021 12:29 am
Seems like a good news. However, if you lose access to your license w/ iLok by keys stopped working (happened to me once, had to literally refregiate it) or a software iLok license gets locked in to a broken computer, it is up to each company's policy to whether they help you. Though, from my experience and what I heard, no company will deny your request or try to charge you.
I've used the iLok cloud for a year or so.
It has never failed, although sometimes, when on a moving train and such, you're asked to save your session because ilok can't access the cloud.
Again, that has never happened in the studio or on a stable internet connection
Nowadays I run a cloud backup on my audio drive and a cloud license for the plugins that have that option.
Using protools disc cache I'm able to run my session from the kitchen table having the material in the cloud.
Only downside is that you only can have one cloud session open at a time.
So you can't connect more than one computer to your likok cloud, not at the moment anyway and I'm too dumb to figure out how that ever would be possible.
Best,
Anders
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 3:43 am
by Guy Rowland
Lawrence wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2021 6:30 pm I think the reason VSL is probably doing it is that (I believe) eLicenser is Steinberg tech and Steinberg's going to kill it.
Indeed - it was quite the co-incidence that both these announcements came on the same day, wasn't it?
Here's the most recent list I could find of companies using eLicenser, from 2017:
Lawrence wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2021 6:30 pm I think the reason VSL is probably doing it is that (I believe) eLicenser is Steinberg tech and Steinberg's going to kill it.
Indeed - it was quite the co-incidence that both these announcements came on the same day, wasn't it?
Here's the most recent list I could find of companies using eLicenser, from 2017:
I know Arturia and reFX don't use it any more. Does anyone know about any of the others?
No diss to the others, but the only big dogs there would seem to be Vienna and maybe Vengeance, though Vienna dwarfs them.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 8:04 am
by Guy Rowland
Oh yes, Vengeance moved away too to Codemeter.
Well that kinda seals it, don't it? eLicenser is dead.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 12:50 pm
by Ashermusic
So Vienna Ensemble Pro will now be iLok?
What is the process to convert?
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 1:40 pm
by wst3
they have not provided details yet, but it sounds like you will simply receive the licenses in your iLok account - of course that presupposes that (a) you have an iLok account, and (b) you tell them your iLok ID. Not sure exactly how they will handle that second part. I'd guess they will ask us to request the new license - at least that's how I'd handle it if I ruled the world, and it can be automated!
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 1:55 pm
by wst3
Here's the question I'd ask - did Steinberg give VSL any kind of advanced warning? It seems as if they did, since the VSL announcement preceded the Steinberg announcement by at least a couple hours. I suppose it is always possible that VSL made the decision independently - based on recent Steinberg server issues, but it seems awfully coincidental. Or perhaps I am too jaded??
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 06, 2021 3:22 pm
by Guy Rowland
wst3 wrote: ↑Mar 06, 2021 1:55 pm
Here's the question I'd ask - did Steinberg give VSL any kind of advanced warning? It seems as if they did, since the VSL announcement preceded the Steinberg announcement by at least a couple hours. I suppose it is always possible that VSL made the decision independently - based on recent Steinberg server issues, but it seems awfully coincidental. Or perhaps I am too jaded??
It is far too co-incidental, isn't it? But we may never know the specifics of what got told to whom when. It can't have been super-rushed, in VSL's case they seem to have all the basics of a plan worked out.
My guess is that this is still some way off being rolled out though - maybe end of the year? I bet Steinberg would like to have it in place by Cubase 12's release.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 07, 2021 9:33 am
by wst3
Yeah, just guessing based on the way things happened. Most likely there was some kind of contractual obligation for Steinberg to report to partners when they made changes to e-Licenser. I know I would not have bought into it without some reassurances that neither I nor my customers could be put in a tough spot.
If that is true then I think Steinberg will be the last company to abandon e-Licenser, and at the moment it looks like VSL may be the first.
I don't expect it will take till the end of the year - once an announcement like this is made it needs to happen quickly or people will lose faith.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 07, 2021 9:46 am
by Ashermusic
VSL’s Paul Kopf responded to a message I sent him: “Yes, we are switching. Nothing for you to do there, we will make this process very easy.
We're working out all the details and then let you know as soon as everything is ready.
Very exciting new options there, with the cloud and all the cool services provided by iLok.”
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 17, 2021 5:44 pm
by lofi
lofi wrote: ↑Mar 06, 2021 2:14 am
Nowadays I run a cloud backup on my audio drive and a cloud license for the plugins that have that option.
Using protools disc cache I'm able to run my session from the kitchen table having the material in the cloud.
Here's me on a train, no dongles, working on a session that is in the cloud and partially loaded in ram.
No disc activity, everything is ram and streaming including the video.
It's a one hour show.
Not a single hiccup.
To me this is as much "in the future" as it gets.
Had you asked me five years ago I'd say this was impossible.
Again, a laptop on a fricking train. Noting but my headphones attached and no material on my internal hard drive.
When I save and close my laptop I can open the session on my workstation and continue from where I left it.
All is 48/24 audio and HD video.
Amazing!
/Anders
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 17, 2021 6:17 pm
by Guy Rowland
Interesting Anders - I guess you need a net connection to start Pro Tools? Does it not check in to the servers every few mins?
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 18, 2021 1:30 am
by lofi
Guy Rowland wrote: ↑Mar 17, 2021 6:17 pm
Interesting Anders - I guess you need a net connection to start Pro Tools? Does it not check in to the servers every few mins?
Yes, you need net for both the material and the licenses. We have free Wi-Fi on our trains, and I’ve also used my phone.
Since protools is using ram scrubbing etc is instant, as long the material is loaded that is.
Luckily it does this in the background.
Before moving I used to commute and the stuff that was connected to my computer was ridiculous.
The first few minutes of the journey were always about connecting stuff and getting the computer to recognise it.
Today it’s instant, as long as I have a net connection.
I took the train from Malmoe to Stockholm roughly a five hour journey and only once was I asked to save my work restart protools due to missing connection.
Best,
/Anders
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 18, 2021 4:16 am
by Guy Rowland
Thanks Anders - it sounds like Swedish train wifi is perhaps the critical component here! I doubt I'd have the same experience in the UK for a long time.
It's perhaps the trickiest issue for cloud-based authorisation. I always feel I'm at the mercy of things beyond my control. If I need to use Pro Tools in a different studio and - as happens not infrequently - the studio's wifi is down that day, I'm stuck. I've always presumed that local machine iLok licenses must be inherently less secure than either Cloud or dongle, otherwise all developers would use them. It otherwise still feels like the safest solution to me, with the main challenge being to recover a license if a machine gets lost - a surmountable problem.
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 18, 2021 4:28 am
by lofi
Guy Rowland wrote: ↑Mar 18, 2021 4:16 am
the studio's wifi is down that day, I'm stuck.
You could always bring an ilok-usb and use the Wi-Fi on your phone to temporary store the licenses you need.
Unlike the steinberg key iLok lets you move licenses how ever you want.
So if you need it on an iLok for a few hours it’s super easy and free you can then send it back to your cloud session if needed (@Guy I know you know this but perhaps others don’t).
Best,
/Anders
Re: Steinberg to drop the dongle
Posted: Mar 18, 2021 4:37 am
by Guy Rowland
Yes indeed, but of course some kind of net connection is needed in every case. If my phone also cannot connect to the internet (in a studio or a tunnel, say), I'm still stuck.
