The Sound Board

Here's the new stuff:

Ability to edit pitched and noise-like components separately with the “Melodic” algorithm
More musical analysis of pitch deviations
Chord Track and Chord Grid for pitch editing, chord recognition
Fade Tool and Leveling Macro for editing dynamics
Additional algorithm (“Percussive Pitched”) plus other algorithm improvements
Search functions for keyboard shortcuts, saving of shortcut sets

The update costs 49 €/US$ for Melodyne assistant, 99 €/US$ for Melodyne editor and 149 €/US$ for Melodyne studio. For Melodyne essential and users who registered Melodyne after 1 March 2020, it is free of charge.

Oooohhh... That sibilant control looks real smooth! GAS awake!

EDIT: And the fade tool, yum!

I LOVE this plugin. Couldn’t do without.

They told me about this at NAMM. Now THIS interests me.

Yeah, there you got the „can’t innovate my ass“ I am missing.

The odd thing now I think of it is that it's taken so long to separate sibilance. It's really obvious looking at a spectral display where the Ss are, so presumably its fairly easy to separate. Looks like slick implementation though. In terms of pitching perhaps it doesn't matter all that much, but for specific de-essing its quite nice.

I only have the Essential version which came bundled with something or other, and I didn't get on with it at all, it seemed far more clumsy than Variaudio's seamless integration in Cubase and one-tool-does-all approach. Even basic zooming seemed awkward. I was hoping Celemony would have addressed this v5. And until Pro Tools does ARA2, its still a pain to use in that DAW too, I tend to reach for Revoice Pro which back-and-forths pretty well, but I find that a clumsy tool as well but in different ways.

It's one aspect of Cubase that they've knocked clear out of the park imo - nearly always if there's significant tuning work to be done I export from PT into Cubase and do it all there, its far quicker for me in the end. All that said, I've no doubt if I forced myself to get more used to Melodyne I'd get quicker with it.

Funny you should mention VariAudio vs Melodyne, Guy. I WOULD like Melodyne’s ability to pitch change an entire mix with minimal glitchiness, but I’ve resisted it for years because VariAudio is good for single voice stuff and more importantly, it’s integrated into Cubase. My biggest complaint about my workflow is clicking in and out of TotalMix and VEP. I wish they were inside Cubase.

Lawrence wrote: ↑May 26, 2020 3:32 am Funny you should mention VariAudio vs Melodyne, Guy. I WOULD like Melodyne’s ability to pitch change an entire mix with minimal glitchiness, but I’ve resisted it for years because VariAudio is good for single voice stuff and more importantly, it’s integrated into Cubase. My biggest complaint about my workflow is clicking in and out of TotalMix and VEP. I wish they were inside Cubase.

Yes, exactly. In the Can't Buy Anything thread I mentioned the poverty of DAWs compared to everything else. Pitching and efficiently hosting VIs really are basic tools in today's era. It boggles my mind that Pro Tools, still the industry king, has no pitching tools or good ways to integrate with them (and that its midi is so limited). They own the Artist interfaces, and yet to this day on Cubase uses them to control midi CCs. Stuff like that.

Anyway, wild tangents. As it is, and slick though some of these features look, there's nothing to come to close to luring me away from VariAudio. At some point when my current workload reduces to tickover stage, I'll update Essentials since that seems to be free, but it has only a tiny subset of the features.

BTW, with their chord thingy, does that mean you could now put Yellow Submarine into it and change the chords / tune? Advertisers would love this, the last decade has been spent turning old happy hits into modern reflective tone poems.

Since I'm so spoiled with Melodyne being the natural companion to Studio One (thanks to ARA2) this is an update that is as close to a "no-brainer" as it ever could be for me. The ability to "de-ess" manually without a scissor tool is worth it alone.

And the chord thing, could probably work. It works so-so on full songs but being able to go into a recorded guitar chord and tune one of the strings after it's recorded is quite amazing.

Melodyne’s pitchshifting used on full mixes sounds better to me than the results with Cubase’s algorithm.

I'll confess I never use Cubase pitch shifting on full mixes, I think their algo is tuned for single instruments and only really works well for that. For time stretching / pitch shifting entire tracks I use the iZotope Radius algo, either in RX or Adobe Audition, that's cleanest for me. In PT I use X-Form sometimes which is heaps better than their stock, but nowhere near as good as Radius.

Lawrence wrote: ↑May 26, 2020 4:45 am Melodyne’s pitchshifting used on full mixes sounds better to me than the results with Cubase’s algorithm.

And Logic’s Flex pitch. Not night and day, but better.

I like Melodyne, and for what it does it is easily the best tool I've tried. But I seldom use it. I just don't have the call to use pitch shifting for correction, I'd rather record another take.

Which is not to suggest I've never used it. There have been performances that were just so breathtaking that fixing them was never in question. (OK, sometimes I did another take and then reverted because the new take was not as good).

It is fascinating tech. It is a very interesting sound design tool. And there are a couple things on the list that intrigue me. But as discussed elsewhere, I don't think this will be on my to-buy list any time soon. Apologies to the developer!!

wst3 wrote: ↑May 26, 2020 11:39 am ...I'd rather record another take.

Well hello mr Swedien

“I never use compressor on the bass.
If I find the levels are uneven, I phone another bass player...”



/Anders

lofi wrote: ↑May 26, 2020 2:25 pm

wst3 wrote: ↑May 26, 2020 11:39 am ...I'd rather record another take.

Well hello mr Swedien

That might just be the highest compliment I've ever received.

lofi wrote: “I never use compressor on the bass.
If I find the levels are uneven, I phone another bass player...”

/Anders

OK, I am guilty of using compression on basses, drums, even guitars - and yes, sometimes it is to help even things out, although just as often it is to get a specific sound.

While I am NOT the guy that can play so evenly that compression is unnecessary I have worked with a couple players that were that good. The most amazing drummer I ever worked with could hit the drum with the same force every time, and then if you asked him to bump it up or down a bit he could do that reliably. I still think he could see the meters<G>!

wst3 wrote: ↑May 26, 2020 7:17 pmWhile I am NOT the guy that can play so evenly that compression is unnecessary I have worked with a couple players that were that good. The most amazing drummer I ever worked with could hit the drum with the same force every time, and then if you asked him to bump it up or down a bit he could do that reliably. I still think he could see the meters<G>!

Since moving I now reside in a building with two other studios and some other companies.
A few days back we talked about all these (Online and irl) recording/mixing masterclasses that you can buy.
And we came to the same conclusion, if you have Steve Gadd in the booth you can use whatever mics/techniques you’d want, it will still sound amazing.
Same goes with *insert any top players name*.
So even if we have better ears than Swedien, better room, mic etc will still need that magic.
That magic comes from the player.
And.
That is why another take (or ten more takes) always is better than trying to fix it in the mix.

Having spent the better part of my life in tv and working a lot in a “live to tape” world, fixing stuff in post/the mix is the norm. That’s the downside you just have to like, otherwise this is not for you (generally speaking).

Melodyne is amazing, then again some of the recording pre melodyne/eventide are pretty amazing and those musicians really knew how to navigate their instruments.

Best,
/Anders

"Live to Tape" - thought that was an oxymoron, until the first time I had to do that.

It is an interesting, fascinating, and very challenging way to work! The only thing that scares me more is live, when it can not be fixed in the mix<G>!

I don't do that sort of work anymore, heck, I don't even get to record anyone other than me (and I am my worst enemy in that setting), so tools like Melodyne aren't critical - if I was working in live to tape they certainly would be, and that is one of the reasons I try to keep current on these tools.

But as you say, the magic comes from the player, and the composition and the arrangement, pretty much in that order, followed by tracking and mixing, but give me a great performance and I'll be a lot happier mixing it<G>!

Our worlds are indeed far apart Bill.

Today I had to mix a showtune in a TV episode. The singer had requested a specific edit be made to the backing of song several weeks ago, which took 2 or 3 goes to nail down. The reasons for this are still opaque to me, since when I played the timeline this afternoon I discovered that he'd decided to sing it totally acapella, about 5 semitones out from the backing we had to use, and of course out of time. Then 8 young "enthusiastic" children joined in, all recorded separately. They were all orbiting - some wildly - around the same key as the backing, which the professional singer did not use. I had about 3 hours to mix the entire 10 minute episode (the song was fortunately only 45 seconds of this).

My solution - pitch the entire backing up five semitones in RX, retaining formants so it doesn't sound too horrific, split it in two and change the tempo at the mid point where he got more excited. Pitch shift every child either +5 or -7 again in RX, export all the vocals into Cubase, variaudio and time-adjust the crap out of everything, throw it back into Pro Tools, and then have a long lie down.

I have been hailed a "genius". It'll be on the BBC shortly.

Day to day, I don't really live a very purist existence.

On Melodyne 5 a brilliant update, the level control and de lesser are great. Similar story to Guy's, a teacher at a school I work in, records her vocals into whats app (at leat she references the key of the original song ) as a parody song on covid and lockdown to keep staff morale up. She then sends this to me and I have to do the backing track (popular songs ABBA etc). It really gives Melodyne a workout and a testament to how transparent it can be with major surgery.

On the other side of the coin have produced a record with Vinnie Colaiuta playing drums. You could have put a 58 anywhere in front of the kit and it would still sound great. Drums were an overdub and he played the whole songs in one go. He did 4 tracks and only once did he actually do it twice because we altered a drum part, absolutely astonishing to witness players at that level.

I have never had any use for tuning software because I don't have to deal with all that with samples and when recording, it is done by engineers or other specialists. I don't usually work with vocals as well.

Because India has a massive Bollywood song industry, there are now specialists who do just voice tuning and clean ups. In fact, some singers will not even enter a studio if the studio does not have this software. Many famous singers sing out of tune and software such as these are very popular in Mumbai.

Of course, there is use for tuning instrumental recordings as well I believe which comes in handy if you are not a great player or genuinely need to tune something because it would be too costly to go back in the studio.

I think, it is a fantastic tool but if abused, it sounds unnatural - as I can hear something off in many Bollywood songs.

The irony is that now producers use AutoTune on in tune vocals, because young people like the sound.

The modern autotuned vocal sound, which I associate with RnB even more than pop, I really despise. Something weird happens when you quite aggressively use AutoTune / VariAudio / Melodyne - not so aggressive that it gets to Cher levels (though this is also still a big thing on its own which I also hate). It sounds sort of perfect and the net effect is that everyone sounds the same. Even I can sound like that with it, if its dialled up to that level. I've used it a few times when that's the sound I really need (usually a parody of some kind)

But the interesting thing is that used with care, there's no need for even a hint of that sound if you don't want it. It's not inherent in the technical process. Likely any vocal you've heard in the last 15 years has been pitched, be it metal, blues or country, and used on the finest singers. It's just done with care and subtlety, retaining the humanity but just keeping it within certain bounds. So I don't fear the tool itself at all, and that ubiquitous sound is a very specific ensemble effect, the sound of many voices with all the imperfections - and character - teched away, a kind of chorus effect but without the chorusing (or something). I guess that is what a lot of people like. And I hate.

I have an engineer friend who has ears like a bat and he can consistently identify vocals even subtlety tuned with Melodyne or AutoTune.

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Jun 04, 2020 12:03 pm I have an engineerfriend who has ears like a bat and he can consistently identify vocals even subtlety tuned with Melodyne or AutoTune.

That'll be everything released in the past 15 years, pretty much.

Kids today think anything not Auto-Tuned is out of tune and wrong. They think people naturally sing like perfect robots.