The Sound Board

They do seem to keep doing these, so how about one thread that can get bumped up whenever something particularly interesting crops up?

This weekend we have:
Orchestral Shepherds - $8
CAGE Bundle - $148
CASE Bundle - $48
Symphonic Shadows - $38
All the above for for $198.

I seem to recall CASE was quite well received, and CAGE too? I have Symphonic Shadows, well worth $38, but I wonder that now I have that on top of all the other things I own, if I'm hitting something of a wall with effects libraries in general. Reminding myself of CAGE by listening to the walkthroughs, one thing that is a common problem with effects libraries is they have no useable tail, and the demos tend to swamp with reverb to try to compensate. Strikes me it would be possible to script an IR of the scoring stage that is only triggered on key release?

Glad you asked!!!

I also have Shadows, and the dreaded library from which it was developed<G>...

I remember CAGE being well regarded, don't recall as much about CASE.

For $48 I wouldn't need a ton of useful instruments to make it worthwhile, but I would need a few!

If anyone owns it and has some thoughts I too will be listening!

Thanks

I have Cage and recently bought Case on a similar flash sale. If you ever need this type of sound (horror, thriller and intense action cues), you will get a lot from Cage and (this is only my assumption from going through the content) can also add in some detail with case (similar library with smaller sizes). I am not particularly convinced with the recording technique of these libraries. They are not on the same level in terms of sound quality and consistency as e.g. Orchestral Tools. But that is totally fine for these types of sounds, as they sound rather gritty and that is what you want them to be!
I'd buy these two immediately again for the given price!
I don't have shadows ... anybody can comment more on these? Probably the flash sale will be over before that ... :-)

Edit: Ouch ... I just noticed, I already bought Shadows! Just didn't remember it ... That should probably be a warning!

FriFlo wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2019 4:24 amEdit: Ouch ... I just noticed, I already bought Shadows! Just didn't remember it ... That should probably be a warning!

I'm glad its not just me...

wst3 wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2019 11:04 amI remember CAGE being well regarded, don't recall as much about CASE.

I meant to ask - what WAS the dreaded library?

I've passed on these for now. Shadows has a ton-o-stuff, and I'm not doing wall-to-wall horror or anything. I remember Piet said that CASE was not so much for horror, mind.

Guy Rowland wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2019 4:42 am

wst3 wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2019 11:04 amI remember CAGE being well regarded, don't recall as much about CASE.

I meant to ask - what WAS the dreaded library?

I forget the name of the library and the developer... it was a well meaning, I think, but very flaky developer. He introduced the library as a limited distribution library, then allowed others to purchase, which upset many. He pulled a couple other stunts along the way, and then sold the rights to the recording to 8Dio.

8Dio offered their version of the library to folks that owned the original for a nominal fee - frankly much less than it was worth given the improvements in organization alone.

Guy Rowland wrote: I've passed on these for now. Shadows has a ton-o-stuff, and I'm not doing wall-to-wall horror or anything. I remember Piet said that CASE was not so much for horror, mind.

As have I. Between Shadows and aleatoric effects from Project Sam and a couple others I believe I have sufficient screeches and such.

And - much as I thought I'd never find a use, I ended up using Orchestral Shepherds in a recent project (along with some of Shadows). Now I guess I"m glad I didn't delete that one. Who knew?

Agreeing here with Guy about a thread. The Woodwinds are up now for sale, and I'd be really interested in whether there are current performance experiences with these W.W.'s , as with all of he stuff that comes from 8Dio.
It would be nice having a referal site (thread) as they seem to be popping things up about every 20 minutes or so at ridiculous savings.
g.c.
P.S.
Ive been told at 8DIO that they use VALHALLA'S Reverb for their demos.

Guy Rowland wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2019 4:42 am I meant to ask - what WAS the dreaded library?

The company was called Private Labs, the product was called Scream, the developer was an apparently well-intentioned but business-challenged guy named Olajide Paris. One huge issue was that Scream was released as one of those "exclusive" limited license products. Only a small number were to be sold, then it would be unavailable forever. This promise was not kept, and some people who thought they were paying for exclusive access became outraged...

...Since I never bought it and have no sympathy for exclusivity anyway, I didn't care, but was a bottom feeder who unabashedly bought a repackaged "Scream Elements" with only one mic position on sale for $19 or something... Scream was eventually bought out by 8Dio and turned into Symphonic Shadows. By then I got something of a windfall and bought UIST, which gives me much more than a lifetime's worth of so-called aleatoric options, so I don't care about Shadows at any price, as I doubt I would ever use it. I have read that 8Dio improved the original Scream quite a bit, but I wouldn't know.

Spot on Quasar, that is how I remember things, except I think there was more to the uproar than just the exclusivity bit, additional material or something that never saw the light of day?

Olajide was, I believe, had good intentions, and no idea what it would take to run the business. It happens. I harbor no ill will.

UIST looks fabulous, but I would need a windfall. For now Symphonic Shadows does the trick for me, along with some material from a couple other libraries. The effects can add a great deal of fun to a track.

8Dio did improve access to sounds, and organization, the sounds themselves were well recorded from the start.

Memories!

1gc wrote: ↑Sep 26, 2019 4:29 pm Agreeing here with Guy about a thread. The Woodwinds are up now for sale, and I'd be really interested in whether there are current performance experiences with these W.W.'s , as with all of he stuff that comes from 8Dio.
It would be nice having a referal site (thread) as they seem to be popping things up about every 20 minutes or so at ridiculous savings.
g.c.
P.S.
Ive been told at 8DIO that they use VALHALLA'S Reverb for their demos.

I have no idea what they use for processing, but I do think they do a very nice job with it!

I like the Claire Woodwinds. They are, for now, the only solo winds I use, so I can't really compare them to others. I think they sound good, they are reasonably consistent, and they are quite easy to learn. I've heard complaints, fortunately after I had a chance to get to know them.

No library will fit everyone's needs. As a point of reference, I also like the Adagio and Agitato strings, and I am impressed with the demos I've heard of their intimate strings, winds, and especially brass.

So Bill, does this mean that the 8Dio winds don’t wander, willy-nilly, across the stereo field?

1gc wrote: ↑Sep 26, 2019 4:29 pm P.S.
Ive been told at 8DIO that they use VALHALLA'S Reverb for their demos.

Colin's mentioned to me in the past that he really liked using Valhalla Shimmer. He talks about that in the video done for his AGE demo.


He's got a Bricasti as well though. However I'm not sure that's as a big of a deal anymore with the ability to load up similar IRs or using plug-ins like Seventh Heaven from LiquidSonics.

It was my understanding that Troels didn't use a lot of plug-ins outside of his DAW...but I could be mistaken,

Thanks Quasar and Bill for the background to Symphonic Shadows, I knew none of that. I do remember Olajide from many years ago on VI-C though.

Lawrence wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 12:31 am So Bill, does this mean that the 8Dio winds don’t wander, willy-nilly, across the stereo field?

Some of the Claire Woodwinds' peculiarities were discussed in this thread. I no longer have the audio examples which I made at the time (except the ones for the flute), so I made some new ones. If you hear something bad in these examples (and there's plenty that answers to that description, in my opinion), that's the library. If you hear something good, that's the library too.

Claire Flute ex.1 / Clair Flute ex.2
Claire Oboe
Claire Bassoon
Claire Clarinet

(Note: I made all these with the original releases of the libraries. Haven't payed much attention, but maybe these instruments have been updated since then.)
_

Lawrence wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 12:31 am So Bill, does this mean that the 8Dio winds don’t wander, willy-nilly, across the stereo field?

Believe it or not, I don't remember. I tend to use most individual patches (as opposed to ensemble patches, e.g. ARK or Albion or Symphobia) as monaural sources, and place them in the stereo field myself.

There is something to be said for a library that places instruments in the field properly (whatever that means), since it would require less work, and I think sound more natural. Perhaps as a consequence of the libraries I do use I've long ago developed my current habit.

Now I suppose I need to revisit the Claire winds. I will do so this evening.

Piet De Ridder wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 4:40 am

Lawrence wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 12:31 am So Bill, does this mean that the 8Dio winds don’t wander, willy-nilly, across the stereo field?

Some of the Claire Woodwinds' peculiarities were discussed in this thread.

OK, maybe I do not have to revisit them after all, thanks for those demos Piet.

Some of this is coming back to me - I think my biggest complaint was the change in overall tone, both within a sample and across samples. Piet identified at least part of the problem as stemming from the use of the Kontakt IR reverb. That could well be. I did not dig as deeply<G>!

Prior to purchasing the 8Dio winds my first call for any part that required isolated or exposed winds was VSL. And I still think they are lovely, and I am curious to see what the updated Special Editions sound like (note to self, make the time!). And I also like CineWinds, which is not always popular either.

Here's my thing - Claire winds and CineWinds are imperfect, as is pretty much any library I've tried. I find the imperfections in both can add some realism to a track when they are part of a larger arrangement. When isolated one needs to pay more attention, and probably do more editing, but as part of an ensemble with strings and brass I think they sound nice.

I may be a musical Luddite after all...

Pretty exposed

Mr. O'Malley is clearly much better at this than I am<G>!

And yet I still heard a couple of the "interesting" timbre changes that could, if one were just listening to the samples, find objectionable.

In this case I find the imperfection to be helpful to the track.

So perhaps exposed is not the word I am looking for?

wst3 wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 11:06 pm So perhaps exposed is not the word I am looking for?

I do understand your point, and the examples put forth by Piet.

Piet De Ridder wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 4:40 am

Lawrence wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 12:31 am So Bill, does this mean that the 8Dio winds don’t wander, willy-nilly, across the stereo field?

Some of the Claire Woodwinds' peculiarities were discussed in this thread. I no longer have the audio examples which I made at the time (except the ones for the flute), so I made some new ones. If you hear something bad in these examples (and there's plenty that answers to that description, in my opinion), that's the library. If you hear something good, that's the library too.

Claire Flute ex.1 / Clair Flute ex.2
Claire Oboe
Claire Bassoon
Claire Clarinet(Note: I made all these with the original releases of the libraries. Haven't payed much attention, but maybe these instruments have been updated since then.)
_

Thanks, Piet, appreciated.

Your first flute example sounds pretty bad to me, while the second one has a vibe to it, not bad at all. Interesting.

The bassoon and oboe are, to me, pretty bad sounding. Those “arcs” make no sense except for specific moments, and really, how did they mess up staccato bassoon??

The clarinet is actually quite nice, I just wish the player had taken a seat rather than running from one side of the stage to the other!

Mike Marino wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2019 2:39 pm

Pretty exposed

Thanks for posting, Mike. It’s a nice enough demo.

That is a very nice piece of work from Colin. Sweet track.

Has to be said though that of the four Claire winds, the clarinet is the only one which has convincing woodwindlike agility, fairly consistent timbres — as illustrated above, several of the legato samples of the oboe sound completely different from the regular sustains, and quite unpleasant too — and, unlike the flute, it has a pleasing timbre across its entire range.
It’s biggest problem is in fact the hopping-around-the-stereo-field, but that’s fairly easy to keep under control with a decent stereo tool.

There still being nothing else available however in the virtual non-symphonic woodwind realm which I find even mildly satisfactory to work with (I mean: a comprehensive coherent set of instruments with a good detailed sound, pin-point expressiveness and versatile performance capabilities), is the reason why the Claires — flawed, fickle and frustrating as they often may be — remain assured of a place on my main samples HD.

_

I seem to remember you recommending Orchestral Tools Expansion B, which I now regret I didn’t buy during the last sale. The lack of bassoon kept me away, but there’s a sweet tone to the rest.

I have a feeling you won't like the OT Exp. B Woodwinds very much, Larry. My early enthusiasm for them (of which some still lingers) was as much as anything caused by the fact that they're a big improvement on the original and in my opinion very disappointing BWW library, but even with that being so, these Exp.B winds are still a fairly cold, rigid and unemotional bunch. I happen to have occasional good use for these instruments, but I really can't place them in *any* of the music I've ever heard from you.

I can make you a few examples if you like, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow cause I've got a project loaded which I'm reluctant to unload until it's finished.

_

Piet De Ridder wrote: ↑Sep 28, 2019 3:37 am There still being nothing else available however in the virtual non-symphonic woodwind realm which I find even mildly satisfactory to work with (I mean: a comprehensive coherent set of instruments with a good detailed sound, pin-point expressiveness and versatile performance capabilities), is the reason why the Claires — flawed, fickle and frustrating as they often may be — remain assured of a place on my main samples HD.

That is the crux of the biscuit isn't it. And I don't say that to be critical - samples will always fall short of live players, and for some of us, who have had the privilege of working with live players (on stage or in the studio) that shortfall will always be there.

The trick then (at least for me) is to find the best of the bunch, and learn to accept that they are not perfect.

The downside of that, of course, is that we end up on a purchasing hamster wheel! Which is good for the developers, and not horrible for us, but it does take time away from actually making music. And the more conservative you are the more time you spend listening to demos, which really eats away at the clock.

Still, in spite of all the shortcomings (And we can all be quite critical at times) there are advantages to balance out the disadvantages.

When I was in high school I had to beg and plead to get the local college orchestra to read through one of my charts. It was that or pay some organization, which I could not do. Getting smaller ensembles (wind ensembles, jazz bands, etc) was a little easier, but all in all I had to depend on my imagination to "hear" things. Not that it was all bad, it helped me develop my imagination. It feels quite lazy to be able to listen to my tracks as they develop.

It ain't all bad!

The 8dioboe is $8, and Century Harps free with any order over $99 this weekend.https://8dio.com/instrument-category/8d ... t-samples/