The Sound Board

http://www.fablesounds.com
Free for current users, 30% off special for new users
There's also a new product: BROADWAY GIG , designed and optimized for keyboardists playing live shows.

Udo wrote: (...) Free for current users (...)

Not quite: there’s a small ‘processing fee’ to pay: $3. (Small, but strange.)

Against my earlier intention, I proceeded with getting the update — I have no immediate interest in the Realtime Orchestrator (though that might change once I get to know it), but the new Unison Section function seems really quite useful — but I still have to install it. Hopefully this weekend.

Did listen again to all the demos, and I have to say: in capable hands, Broadway Big Band *is* a very impressive product. Sounding much better and more convincing, to my ears, than anything else I know of, including all the recent releases from other developers. It's got the right sound, the right character ... It simply speaks the exact same language as the music. But again: capable and committed hands required.

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Anyway, here the list of what's new and/or improved in this update:

REAL-TIME ORCHESTRATOR (RTO)
A groundbreaking feature enabling polyphonic, poly-rhythmic legato across a mixed section of instruments. Using RTO you can play an entire section on the keyboard, and the notes you play are orchestrated in real time and distributed to the various instruments in the RTO multi, based on orchestration schemes that you can create yourself. This is an extremely powerful system which is extremely easy to use. Great for live shows, as well as tracking under tight deadlines. It also offers articulation presets which can replace the built-in key-switching with alternative midi triggers such as foot-switches, freeing your left hand for playing notes rather than key-switches.

UNISON SECTION
From now on, you can use any of the Broadway Big Band wind instruments multiple times in the arrangement or in a multi, even when playing unison, creating a realistic section of multiple instruments. This means that even with multiple instances of just one instrument, you can still get a realistic section of multiple instruments playing in unison. The feature is not some kind of a doubling effect, but rather it uses different samples, and performs slight adjustments to make sure each instance of the instrument sounds a little different from the other. The results are very realistic. The feature also includes “Humanize” and “Detune” knobs for further control over the section sound.

NOTATION SOFTWARE SUPPORT
With version 2.0, “Notation mode” has been added to all of the Broadway Big Band instruments, to enable notation programs to communicate with Broadway Big Band and use it for playback of scores, including all included articulations and dynamics. The new Notation mode also enables integration with Cubase Expression maps. This was not previously possible due to the unique articulation switching system in Broadway Big Band. The new Notation Mode uses an alternative system of key-switching that is more in line with the way notation programs operate. (full documentation in the user manual).

VELOCITY CURVE CONTROL
Due to the extended dynamic range of the wind instruments included in Broadway Big Band, it is sometimes difficult to keep dynamics under control when using a MIDI keyboard’s velocity. To help overcome this, we’ve added a new knob to control the velocity curve, which helps adjusting the responsiveness of the Broadway Big Band instruments to various MIDI keyboards. The new velocity curve control feature can also be MIDI automated to make changes within a song as needed.

A NEW ARTICULATION ADDED TO TENOR SAXOPHONE 1
FP+Vibrato, Added both as a temporary articulation and in combination with the existing “Strong Vibrato” articulation, as a new “Deep Vibrato” playing mode.

VARIOUS IMPROVEMENTS IN PROGRAMMING AND UI
Improved consistency of levels and envelope programming and a new and improved user interface.

And for anyone interested, here's a link to the manual

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Seemed to me that the demos were all old ones, including the amazing one by Amit Poznansky. Maybe I missed the new ones.

Piet De Ridder wrote: ... It simply speaks the exact same language as the music. But again: capable and committed hands required.

Ya, but man, $1750? Is it really that much better than other options? Seems like for 4xs the cost of other libraries it had better knock your socks off, and I don't get that from your comments, Piet.

Piet De Ridder wrote:

Udo wrote: (...) Free for current users (...)

Not quite: there’s a small ‘processing fee’ to pay: $3. (Small, but strange.) (...................)
_

Sorry, haven't downloaded and tried it yet.

Huh! Looking forward to trying this next week. Odd there's still no new videos, beyond that strangely edited puff piece (doubly strange since Yuval said most of the last year has been spent working on the videos). Likewise I too only see the old demos, Larry. They've always sounded stupendous, and it's fair to say I've not heard anything else quite as good from anyone else.

Still, will gladly pay my $3 when time allows. I'll be off the forum most of the next couple of days, btw.

Tried to download, but can't - don't have a download code. Bought v1 boxed. I'll have to wait until Yuval sends me one.

I'm very curious about the number of new sales BBB generates at their present price point, but I guess I'll never know.

Guy Rowland wrote:Huh! Looking forward to trying this next week. Odd there's still no new videos, beyond that strangely edited puff piece (doubly strange since Yuval said most of the last year has been spent working on the videos). Likewise I too only see the old demos, Larry. They've always sounded stupendous, and it's fair to say I've not heard anything else quite as good from anyone else.

Still, will gladly pay my $3 when time allows. I'll be off the forum most of the next couple of days, btw.

I would love to see a quick video from you Guy when you eventually have the time (nothing as comprehensive as Swing more obviously). I'm just curious to see why people would spend that kind of money in today's market, but perhaps they won't. Hollywood Strings also sounds very good in capable hands, but I don't usually have the extra time it takes so I reach for something easier to use (CSS, Cinebrass). I wonder if this is the same- good tone with so-so interface (or in HO's case, no decent keyswitch patches). Your thoughts on the newest version of BBB is greatly appreciated.

In fact, I wonder how this compares to Swing more, which impressed me in your videos (at 20 percent of the cost). Thanks for that! Cheers.

To all the guys who own it: some people have complained about drastic tuning issues ... are there any? If there still are, I would find that very strange indeed ... after such a long time having not dealt with the most pressing issues. Regarding the price: I have two problems with this. First, I never give a developer that kind of money if he already filled his pocket with a fire sale and Fable Sound did have a 60% off - offering some time (I think, last year) where you could get the library for just under 1000 bucks. So, out of a principle I wouldn't pay more than that today. :-)
Second, I am very much in doubt with Yuvals dedication and abilities all over ... he just made to many promises and didn't keep them. I can relate to his obvious obsession about a polyphonic legato script, but at some point he should have seen it is more like an obsession than a practical tool. Quite a lot of people have tried and so far no one has ever achieved something really great. IMO it is kind of impossible.
Not owning this library, I don't want to jump to any conclusions I might regret, so I am really keen on hearing more form you guys! But I still think the dose of BS that Yuval has publicly showed everyone over the last years is a clear warning sign and I am kind of skeptical what this upgrade might be ...

X - I may be able to do a video in due course - probably not a mammoth Every Patch, Articulation and Control one (EPAC!) which would take a week, but something to give a flavour.... perhaps going through one patch thoroughly with all the articulations and then just an overview of everything else, and of course the new features. After I play with them myself, I mean.

Because BBB is actually pretty vast, perhaps not quite the range of Swing More! (no pianos, vocals etc) but it does have guitars, drums, bass etc, and mind boggling numbers of articulations.

FriFlo - I for one can't say I ever suffered "drastic" tuning issues, fwiw

Big band arrangements take a lot of time and effort, and SAMPLED big band productions are truly arduous. I like the old demos, especially the one great old Amit Poznansky one, but I often wonder: where are the user demos? Guy, Piet, have you guys ever mocked up a big band arrangement with it?

I wish Yuval would split off the horns and sell them separately at a lower price. I bought Lites and couldn't find a use for them, but even at $1395 for an upgrade to full, still too rich for my blood. I think EWQLSO was the most expensive library I've bought, and even with the upgrade cycle to Platinum, it was about $1000. I used it in hundreds of projects, occasionally still do use the perc and harp. This is more of a specialty item.

X-bassist wrote: In fact, I wonder how this compares to Swing more, which impressed me in your videos (at 20 percent of the cost).

+1

I’m in complete sympathy with all the misgivings, doubts and raised eyebrows where Broadway Big Band is concerned — any divinity knows that I raised more than a few myself over the years —, and if you’re not too particular with regard to jazz brass/reeds samples than, yes, the price is ridiculously steep … I’ll even add that, after spending a few hours with the 2.0 update, one really has to wonder why this update has taken so long (and why it’s no more of an update than it is) because, except maybe for the Realtime Orchestrator (which I haven’t tried yet), all the new features and ‘improvement tweaks’ are things which, in my opinion, shouldn’t take any committed and competent developer more than a few weeks or so to implement.

Add to that the fact that the dynamic response of many patches is still all wrong, that the instant playability is still as poor as it ever was, and that most of the wind instruments remain frustratingly undersampled, and any sane man or woman can be well forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that Broadway Big Band simply isn’t worth the money and may even be near-criminally overpriced.

All true.

But … then … there’s the sound. And that’s where the entire equation of considerations changes completely, I believe. The sound of BBB is the *only* thing that justifies its price. If you want that sound (that very characteristic cabaret/big band/kurt weill/music hall sound), BBB is the only library that can give it to you — consistently and convincingly. Not Chris Hein, not Straight Ahead, not ProjectSAM, not Sample Modeling, not Session Brass, … only Broadway Big Band. That sound is the only trump card in this library’s deck, all the rest of it being fairly average and often annoyingly so.

So, if you can’t or don’t hear much difference between this library’s wind instruments and Hein’s, or if that difference doesn’t matter all that much to you, there is absolutely no argument whatsoever to buy BBB. Or if you’re convinced that all your big band-ish or jazzy aspirations can be realized entirely satisfyingly with ProjectSAM or StraightAhead/ImpactSoundWorks or whatever, then, again, I can see no reason at all to even consider BBB. Would be a complete waste of money.

BBB, in short, and its price, only make sense if you value the right sound. (That’s true of all good libraries of course, but in this case that consideration has a little more weight, knowing how much you have to pay for ‘the right sound’.)
But if you (or your clients) are wholly satisfied with an approximation of that sound, or if you do the kind of music or jobs where timbral accuracy is only of secondary importance, then there’ s no point to BBB at all.

On a personal note however: if I had to start all over again tomorrow, knowing what I know, I wouldn’t buy SwingMore! again, I certainy wouldn’t buy Straight Ahead Jazz Horns again, nor Session Brass or Chris Hein Horns or Winds … but I would DEFINITELY buy Broadway Big Band again. Instantly. Even though the library has frustrated and irritated me much more than any other, even though it could be a lot more than it actually is, even though I also have some doubts about its developer, … none of that matters, in light of its sound. The right sound. To me, very much worth what Fable Sounds asks for it.

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Still waiting for the download code.

Does the original version have to be installed for the v2 update installation to succeed?

Yes, it does. The 2.0 update itself isn't all that large (95MB) — the whole thing was downloaded in well under a minute — and is completely useless without a full installation of BBB v1 being present.

The V2 installation consists of expanding the 6 downloaded RAR-files and then moving the contents manually into your existing BBB folder (with some of the files being overwritten, others simply added to what's already there). In other words, it doesn't happen automatically.

I don't understand why you're not getting your download links, Udo. I bought v1 as a physical, boxed version too. If you have that product registered with Fable Sounds, you simply purchase the update and it'll appear, available for download, on your account page. You don't even have to contact Yuval for anything.
(If you haven't registered your copy of v1: next to the discs, there should also be a printed Quick-Start Guide in your BBB box and that has your serial number in the right-bottom corner.)

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I am using Swing, going to add Swing More as soon as I get a couple things resolved, and I do fill in with CHHCompact and Straight Ahead Horns... so I'm on a somewhat parallel path. Which means I've read that last part of your post a couple of times now...

I suppose if I earned more from these sorts of charts I'd make the leap, but there is no way for me to justify the cost. I agree that the sound is pretty darned amazing, I know only what I've read about the workflow... I genuinely wish much success to them, but I think the price is way out of kilter. It might have been realistic 10 years ago, but the market seems to be heading in the opposite direction.

Someone once demo'd Warp IV for me quite impressively. No legato, zillions of articulations, pretty well balanced, nice sound. It would be fiddly to get good results from, but I believe they're possible. They were never marketed as aggressively as some others.

Just a quick thought on the overall BBB sound. For me it is true to the name - it's more Broadway than Hollywood. And nothing else captures that like BBB, 'tis true. Personally I'm more interested in the bigger end of big band, where Swing in particular seems to be focused.

Piet, if you have a boxed version AND a download code in your account you must have downloaded a minor upgrade in the past.

Because of the time it took for v2 to arrive, I assumed it would be a total rewrite (essentially a new product ), hence my question if v1 had to resident when installing v2.

My BBB is registered, but only used briefly, I think. (since then I've been using another version in a studio I'm affiliated with, .... I know, I know, strictly speaking that's not legal ...).

Guy Rowland wrote:X - I may be able to do a video in due course - probably not a mammoth Every Patch, Articulation and Control one (EPAC!) which would take a week, but something to give a flavour.... perhaps going through one patch thoroughly with all the articulations and then just an overview of everything else, and of course the new features. After I play with them myself, I mean.

Because BBB is actually pretty vast, perhaps not quite the range of Swing More! (no pianos, vocals etc) but it does have guitars, drums, bass etc, and mind boggling numbers of articulations.

FriFlo - I for one can't say I ever suffered "drastic" tuning issues, fwiw

Thanks Guy, that would be fantastic when you have the time. Especially brass and winds (are the articulations keyswitched or separate nki's?- this is why a video is needed. The lack of information is weird considering how much their asking). I'd like to see what Piet is getting at (the sound) as I think he's nuts to hand money to a developer he questions. Eventually someone will sample the same sound that works better and is from someone that is reliable. Still, Looking forward to the video.

X-bassist, if I had, over the years, limited my purchases to those developers whom I trust, respect and/or hold in high regard, I’d only have a very, very tiny handful of libraries by now, I fear.

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I can’t recall exactly, Udo, but there was the move from Halion to Kontakt — was that when it went from v1 to v1.3 ? I really can’t remember — which may have been the time when we had to register and create an account with Fable Sounds.
Either way, if you can somehow prove legitimate ownership of v1 to Yuval, I see no reason why you wouldn’t be able to upgrade. Might cost you a fraction more than just the $3 though.

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Piet, I was registered and have already upgraded. It's just that there's no download code in my account yet. As I said I've contacted Yuval.

X - I don't think this has changed in 2.0, but it's 1 nki per instrument and mike (4 mic options for most instruments). All the articulations are keyswitches, some momentary, some latched.

Larry - forgot to say I've never done a BBB demo as such, it's nearly always combined with other instruments. I often want more bite from the trumpets for example - it's a far more pleasing and realistic tone than CHH's, but the downside is that it's quite timid. The Swing trumpet ensembles really are the sound I've been waiting for there - real bite but without plasticity.

Udo wrote:Piet, I was registered and have already upgraded. It's just that there's no download code in my account yet. As I said I've contacted Yuval.

Same here. When I first helped them make the Broadway Performer/Halion version work with Logic, they gave me an NDF but no serial number, so he is sorting that out.