The Sound Board

The NI/Soundiron collaboration continues with the Symphonic Series Woodwinds

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Link to the Youtube playlist:

I really want to like these, but there's something about them that severely rubs me the wrong way. Don't like the sound at all.

Sounds pretty good to me as far as I can tell, like the brass did (and still does in the demos). Tino's demo #6 in the ensembles on the NI website has them more exposed than most. Wasn't sure of some of the low stuff elsewhere.

But demos is demos. And in my case, I'm not really in the market... always curious about what NI is up to though. Overall I know the Symphonic series doesn't have a lot of love and I'm not rushing to get it, but in the end I think it'll make a very competitive and pretty strong orchestra for people starting out that's a long way above the Garriton's and Kirk Hunters. Could be a realistic alternative for the EWQL part of the market.

To my ears their "simulated" legato in the solo library works much better than the "true" legato... strange thing. The overall tone isn't bad at all, I'd like to listen to a more close up performance, these examples are a bit too reverberated...

I honestly don't know how to make an assessment with it swimming in that much reverb.

I don't know how to reconcile what Rob said, whose ability I greatly respect, with what my ears tell me about those simulated solo legato transitions, which is that they should be let nowhere near an exposed solo line. They sound like naive crossfaded sustains to me, modulo the "ensemble effect" problem.

But there's no character! Woodwinds can have such character in their legato transitions.

Ashermusic wrote:I honestly don't know how to make an assessment with it swimming in that much reverb.

Soundiron's recording technique is a bit different. They are recording large ensembles in a large church.
Also their mics are very distant. From the manual :
CLOSE 5 ft. / 1.5 m
MID 25 ft. / 8 m
FAR 75 ft. / 23 m

I just watched to solo walkthrough. I have to say I'm a bit surprised that the solo flute (long notes) is played without vibrato. It rather sounds like the flutist was recorded right after an ice bucket challenge. The vibrato slider is set to zero. This slider is also set to zero in the oboe test, although that one is played with vibrato. I'm confused.

Also, those are the slowest trills I've ever heard.

It's mostly the sustains/legatos I struggle with. Maybe they're not meant for exposed settings? The other articulations sound fine, but the sustains/legatos sound somewhat dated to me.

Maybe I just need some sleep?

Yasin Yavuz wrote:

Ashermusic wrote:I honestly don't know how to make an assessment with it swimming in that much reverb.

Soundiron's recording technique is a bit different. They are recording large ensembles in a large church.
Also their mics are very distant. From the manual :
CLOSE 5 ft. / 1.5 m
MID 25 ft. / 8 m
FAR 75 ft. / 23 m

So are you saying that is all ambience in that demo and no added reverb?

tack wrote:I don't know how to reconcile what Rob said, whose ability I greatly respect, with what my ears tell me about those simulated solo legato transitions, which is that they should be let nowhere near an exposed solo line. They sound like naive crossfaded sustains to me, modulo the "ensemble effect" problem.

But there's no character! Woodwinds can have such character in their legato transitions.

Let's put it this way then, their true legato is worse than the simulated one...

Ashermusic wrote:

Yasin Yavuz wrote:

Ashermusic wrote:So are you saying that is all ambience in that demo and no added reverb?

If you mean walkthrough videos, I think it's all natural ambience.

I'm only just catching up with that youtube playlist lucor linked in the 2nd post - there's a demo there of the mic positions. Honestly sounds pretty standard for an ambient library - on that demo the close position has pretty good definition, far more than the general mix.



As for the legatos... again, it sounds pretty par for the course from an ambient library. Doesn't do much to lure me away from VSL for solo winds...

Guy Rowland wrote:As for the legatos... again, it sounds pretty par for the course from an ambient library.

I don't know, to me it sounds significantly inferior to the legato of BWW or BML woodwinds.

RobS wrote:Let's put it this way then, their true legato is worse than the simulated one...

Yes, that puts it into better context.

I don't have BWW or BML woods to compare with directly Jason, but I'd say its on a par with other SF libraries I have, with the caveat that some libs are better than others (I have the 2 horn BML whose legato is rather poor imo, while the new Albion ONE strings are excellent for example).

Whaddayall think - AudioBro to finish off with the percussion in a few months time?

I think the price point for NI users is great...As compared to VSL or BWW, I had a hard time getting through the walk throughs, I found the legato transitions annoying.

I just received this and so far, 20 minutes or so in, I am really, really loving it. If I turn of the reverb and stereo mic and load the close mic, and pan properly, I think I may have my new "go to' woodwinds.

The sound and flexibility is great and I find the legato really playable. I will be reviewing this for macProVideo.com and I can already predict it will be very positive.

Ashermusic wrote:I just received this and so far, 20 minutes or so in, I am really, really loving it. If I turn of the reverb and stereo mic and load the close mic, and pan properly, I think I may have my new "go to' woodwinds.

The sound and flexibility is great and I find the legato really playable. I will be reviewing this for macProVideo.com and I can already predict it will be very positive.

if you find the time Jay, would you do a little demo just to show the legato and close mics sound?

Sure, happy to. One initial disappointment is that the true legato patches have no vibrato.

Ashermusic wrote:Sure, happy to. One initial disappointment is that the true legato patches have no vibrato.

odd choice...

RobS wrote:

Ashermusic wrote:Sure, happy to. One initial disappointment is that the true legato patches have no vibrato.

odd choice...

On further exploration, solo instruments have vibrato ensembles do not. They have "motion".

The manual says: "The Motion control allows you to add movement to the sound, which modulates both pitch and intensity of the note."

But Jan says that motion is really vibrato as well. I probably should not talk about these more until I am deeper into it, but so far I am liking what I hear.

But then again, as we all know, my taste is not always in sync with most on forums

Ashermusic wrote:

RobS wrote:

Ashermusic wrote:Sure, happy to. One initial disappointment is that the true legato patches have no vibrato.

odd choice...

On further exploration, solo instruments have vibrato ensembles do not. They have "motion".

The manual says: "The Motion control allows you to add movement to the sound, which modulates both pitch and intensity of the note."

But Jan says that motion is really vibrato as well. I probably should not talk about these more until I am deeper into it, but so far I am liking what I hear.

But then again, as we all know, my taste is not always in sync with most on forums

"motion" could be some kind of modulation then... take all the time you need, Jay, there's really no hurry

I couldn't get past the first couple of minutes of any of the videos, but so far nothing sounds very good to me.

What do you use for mock ups Daryl? I'd think VSL?

VSL or SM depending on the purpose of the mock-up, and TBH VSL takes too long, even playing most of it in real time, so apart from Flutes, it tends to be SM.