The Sound Board

Changing patches on the Synclavier is extremely sluggish. Sometimes it takes up to 30s on my system to refresh the next patch (MacPro 2008) with DP8.
Is this what you guys are experiencing too? It seems like it could use something like Kontakt's Batch Resave.

I suppose this is what to expect with a V1.0?

synergy543 wrote:Changing patches on the Synclavier is extremely sluggish. Sometimes it takes up to 30s on my system to refresh the next patch (MacPro 2008) with DP8.
Is this what you guys are experiencing too? It seems like it could use something like Kontakt's Batch Resave.

I suppose this is what to expect with a V1.0?

I've just installed the demo on W7 64 bit, and patch changes almost instant here, Gregory - maybe half a second or so at times, but that's it.

ok Guy, spill... is it as cool as I think it is? Should I give the demo a spin? Will my wallet regret it if I do?

wst3 wrote:ok Guy, spill... is it as cool as I think it is? Should I give the demo a spin? Will my wallet regret it if I do?

Give it a spin - what you got to lose?! It's just time-limited / no-save demos. I've had a quick play, and the UIs are as transformative as I hoped they'd be, really. All that said - given what I already own, it doesn't feel essential. But the next stupid discount they do, I'll be all over it.

Still going through the basics. Tell you what... do love the built in arp, fx and YES polyphony to the minimoog (who wouldn't have wanted all that on their hardware 35 years ago? Sod the purists). Sounds damn good to me. Monark is great, but this is sonically pretty damn good too now. The Bss Wheel patch IS the Human League Open Your Heart bass sound. What's not to like?!

Oh lordy I'm in love with the Solina. Jarre circa '77... Numan circa '79....

Quite a few of the others feel more take it or leave it. But seeing what you're doing now sure helps.

Guy Rowland wrote:

wst3 wrote:ok Guy, spill... is it as cool as I think it is? Should I give the demo a spin? Will my wallet regret it if I do?

Give it a spin - what you got to lose?!

A couple hundred bucks... and apologies, the only one that really fascinates me is the Synclavier... have you had time to play with it?

I'll probably just download the demo - not sure if I was hoping for encouraging or discouraging news<G>!

wst3 wrote:A couple hundred bucks... and apologies, the only one that really fascinates me is the Synclavier... have you had time to play with it?

A little. Unsurprisingly, I've never played with a real one. I had the idea it was quite unique sounding, but I'll confess I was a little disappointed there - it felt like an FM synth. Looks like the programming is unique though, so I can see why its of interest to many.

Guy Rowland wrote:

wst3 wrote:A couple hundred bucks... and apologies, the only one that really fascinates me is the Synclavier... have you had time to play with it?

A little. Unsurprisingly, I've never played with a real one. I had the idea it was quite unique sounding, but I'll confess I was a little disappointed there - it felt like an FM synth. Looks like the programming is unique though, so I can see why its of interest to many.

It IS an FM synth.

..well that would explain it! I always thought it had something different going on synthesis-wise.

This quick tutorial will give you a fast overview of what's possible. Its actually a very well-designed interface.


btw, when I run it is stand-alone mode, it responds extremely fast on my Mac, so the slow-response problem I had seems to be only inside DP8. If any other DP8 users here (?) have a different experience, please advise.

Guy Rowland wrote:A little. Unsurprisingly, I've never played with a real one.

Say it isn't so - I figured you for a guy with a Synclav in his living room and his studio!!

Guy Rowland wrote:I had the idea it was quite unique sounding, but I'll confess I was a little disappointed there - it felt like an FM synth. Looks like the programming is unique though, so I can see why its of interest to many.

It is an FM synth, but it also does additive synthesis, and there are ways to combine the two methods (I believe you can build both carriers and modulators with the additive tools.) And it is a sample player, and even a hard disk recorder - the hardware I mean.

The only times I got to play with one was at an AES show in New York MANY years ago, and during an interview at New England Digital, also MANY years ago. The AES show was pretty much what you'd expect, an anxious sales person leaning over your shoulder hitting all kinds of buttons and yeah, it sounded awesome! The second time was more like a lesson - they more-or-less walked me through the entire thing, my head was spinning, but it was cool, and some of what they told me even made sense<G>!

Not enough cockpit time to be able to tell if the plugin is authentic, but certainly enough time to recognize the power under the hood. And to develop a desire to own one!!

Quick (ha!) aside - I used to live about an hour from the Allen Organ Company. You'd be surprised at some of the music technology patents they held, they were really quite progressive! Anyway, they had the sampler sub-section of a Synclavier in their lab, they used it to sample organs (they had an anechoic chamber that would hold a 16' pipe!) I didn't know this when I saw an ad that they were selling an NED Synclavier. Well heck, I made an appointment to go see it... I was a brave/brash lad back then.

It took them about 30 seconds (I think) to figure out that (a) I could not afford the beast, and (b) I had no idea they had only the sampler. But the sales guy (actually director of marketing) humored me anyway, and I ended up getting a tour of the factory, it was a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon! As I'm leaving Clark - the poor marketing guy - invites me home for dinner. I asked if he often brought strays home, and he said he did. So I went. We spent the evening in his studio and I learned that had a checkered past - he started the service department at ARP (I have his ARP 2600), he was a clinician for Rocky Mountain Instruments and had both the RMI KC I and KC II in his studio, along with an additive synth of sorts, and he was an amazing pianist and organist (unusual!) and a very creative composer and sound designer. We've been friends ever since, and as I type this I realize I really need to give him a call!

Thanks Bill, very interesting post! And that chimes with what I thought about the Synclavier conceptually, I figured it wasn't just a posh DX7 synthesis-wise. Trouble is, that's the impression of it that I have sonically - a posh DX7 sums it up rather well, actually. I don't hear sounds that feel radically different. As such it's an historical curiosity and very interesting programming-wise (thanks for the video link, Gregory), but for me personally I just can't get terribly excited about those end results. There again, I am a bit of a subtractive analogue fan vs FM, so perhaps its just my bias talking.

I don't know Guy, as I have never spent time with one since Brian Banks demoed it for me and some others a gazillion years ago but as with most things, I suspect it is a matter of how much time you spend learning to use it to its full potential.

Sean Callery's assistant told me that he still uses his Synclavier a lot and he creates the best dramatic scores on American TV IMHO. I believe Al Silvestri still uses his as well.

I wouldn't go there personally unless I got a gig that would justify my spending the time, however.

Ashermusic wrote:... I suspect it is a matter of how much time you spend learning to use it to its full potential.

Yes, I think that is very true and I had the same thought. Also, with software, we never know how long we'll be able to actually use it as we don't know if the company will be around next year or whether the software will install with an inevitable new software update. This is an inherent problem with modern virtual instruments - they could be somewhat ephemeral (i.e. Garritan Stardivarious Violin). So I would hesitate to invest the time with a virtual instrument that I might with a wooden one. Heck, even the Mac itself is on the verge of becoming an obsolete dinosaur! (writing this on my new $499 "test" Dell 8700 PC).

Yes, undoubtedly true that the more time you put in, the more you get out. My point really though is that nothing I heard in the presets excited me enough to make me bother. I mucked about a bit with the partials and that was fun, but in the end I don't think its for me.

so I downloaded the full demo, and I've spent some time with all the instruments, after spending a lot of time (too much in my humble opinion) downloading and installing.

Overall impressions:

Their installation and startup scripts need to join the 21st century! It's nice that they allow you to do a custom install, but sheesh, are you really going to make me specify parameters for each individual package?

The same applies to starting up each instrument, once I choose a specific audio and MIDI interface, and set them to my liking once I should be done. There is no cost to letting me set global setting and then letting me further customize them, there is a huge cost to making me set each one.

I also had problems with startup where I'd receive error messages about my audio settings which turned out to be false. Lost some time there but by the third instrument I caught on.

And really, that's about it for actual complaints. I did run into the sluggish patch change thing on a couple of synths, but I expect it has more to do with the innards than the engine. So I'm not complaining about that.

Sound - and let's face it, sound is the thing that is going to sell me, I think almost all of them sound gorgeous. I don't think many of them sound exactly like the hardware they were modeled after, and perhaps that is a marketing issue, but it certainly is not a sound issue. There are some real gems.

As with any bundle, the odds of anyone loving every single plug-in are slim (SoundToys is the only developer thus far to reach that goal for me), so it comes down to how many do I want to add to my already cluttered plug-in menu? (and before I continue I should add that I was a beta tester for the original modular, I was not an enthusiastic participant, and we parted ways amicably.)

ARP 2600 - hands down I prefer the TimewARP plug-in, but I've mentioned that before, and it remains the case. This one does some tricks that the TimewARP doesn't, but nothing that blows me away.

B3 - hmmm... very different, to my ears, from my NI organs. Might make a nice addition if I had the chops, might even be worth keeping anyway.

CS-80 - the first polyphonic synth I ever heard. And this is a pretty cool emulation, although I couldn't tell you if it is accurate. I just like the sounds.

Farfisa - perhaps too much Farfisa and Vox exposure as a kid (all we could afford) but I just don't like those organs. This is pretty close, in fact I'd say it sounds better than the Farfisa I remember.

Jupiter 8 - tied for most disappointing, it just didn't convince me it was a Jupiter. And it didn't do anything new for me.

Matrix 12 - the other disappointment, perhaps it was because I REALLY wanted these two to be stellar?

Mini - they've gotten this right, to my ears, forever. I really like this one.

Modular - I'm not sure why, but I'm still not convinced. As noted above, I may be biased.

Piano - what an interesting plugin. I don't particularly care for the sound, but dang, the control over space and microphones behaves very nearly as I'd expect. They need to package that up!!

Prophet - didn't realize it included the V and the VS. The sound does not model what I remember for the V, but it does sound nice. And the VS is a nice touch.

SEM - WOW! This was a nice surprise. I love it, in spite of the fact that it makes my monitors seem a little sad. It reminds me a LOT of the SEM, and maybe even an optimized SEM? This would be a keeper.

Solina - fun, and I like the sound it makes, but it isn't something I'd likely use. Perhaps I need to spend more time with it?

Stage 73 - I'm still searching for the perfect Rhodes! The Sampletekk is as close as it gets, but as it is sample based it only does one thing, it does it really well, but sometimes I like to play with sound. The Lounge Lizard is flexible, and I've gotten some nice sounds from it, but never quite what the Sampletekk provides. And the NI library fills in the middle ground, so I don't think I would get much use from this. It's nice, but doesn't change the game.

Synclavier - as already discussed, my cockpit time with a Synclavier isn't worth much, but this intrigues me. Is it just a lust for a vintage synth I'll never own? I don't know, but the majority of my demo time will probably be spent with it. The presets seem to only scratch the surface, and seem to be FM focused. There was still enough there to inspire curiosity...

Vox Continetal - same as the Farfisa... just not a sound I would use, at least not right now.

Wurli - my other favorite electric piano, in spite of the fact that it was all we could afford when I was a lad. And this one sounds good. I had a lot of fun with it.

As I write this I'm wondering if some of my yawning might be the presets? Are they not really representative of what the individual synths can do? I'm not sure, and I may have to dig a little deeper, especially with the Jupiter and the Matrix 12.

Thus far I'm not inclined to buy the bundle, but I think I will probably buy the Synclavier when it is offered on sale. But I am really glad I invested the time to install the demo and hear it for myself. Which is advice I often offer, but sometimes don't apply to myself<G>!

The best Rhodes is the NeoSoul. Take it from a guy who played a silver top Rhodes suitcase 5-6 nights a week for app. 7 years.

I tried the NeoSoul quite a while back... perhaps I should give it another spin? I have a Rhodes 73, but it is in dire need of a complete rebuild (for which I have all the parts - but not the time, ain't that always the way). What I should really do is fix the darned thing!

Instead I think I'll download the demo...

Why have I still not bought this?! Seemed to get some pretty positive feedback here, and it might be time to buy with my 80s project coming. Any more feedback over the past few months? I guess I'm mostly interested in the old subtractive synths.

I re-demoed U-He's Diva today. As ever it sounds wonderful. As ever, I hate the interface - I can never figure out what's going on. And that's quite a trick they pulled, adding tags but not having a browser that supports them. Nope, I just don't think we're gonna get along. So I'm leaning towards Arturia again, if I don't just stick with what I have.

I ended up buying it a couple weeks ago, a deal I could no longer resist<G>. I bought it for the Matrix 12 and the Synclavier mostly, and by the time I paid for those I was only a couple bucks away from the bundle, so of course I bought the bundle.

It is too soon for a detailed review, but I can tell you that:
(a) I am having a blast with the Synclav - I have no idea how faithful it is to the original, but it is fun, and it sounds cool!
(b) the Matrix 12 is better than I expected - it doesn't sound exactly like any of the Matrix or Xpander boxes I used, but it sounds good.
(c) the Arp 2600 is better than I remember, but the Wayoutware version is still my favorite.

More later

wst3 wrote:If I could by the Synclavier I would. I am completely satisfied with the TimewARP 2600, and the gForce mini, so really the only other Arturia synth that grabs my attention is the Jupiter and maybe the Matrix. And I also wish someone would release a library or emulation based on the Waveframe!!!

UVI has one, but it looks a little old...
https://www.uvi.net/en/vintage-corner/w ... ction.html
Here's a review...

Personally all the Arturia demos sounded limited, not any exciting sounds. I feel the same about most UVI stuff, some are better than others but none have a great low end. Was really thinking of getting the Syncalviar when it was last on sale but the demo left me thinking "what would I use this for?"

"Really replace?" Yes, really. Still waiting for an analog sound I like with more than a few usable patches. U-He has some good stuff but I'm with guy, wish the interfaces were better. Perhaps I stick with my Omni patches until something better comes along.

I spotted an ABSURD deal on v5 + Spark 2 on KVR 2nd hand. Bought for $180... how could I not? As you said earlier Bill, the SEM sounds absolutely terrific (far better than the Prophet or Juno emulations) and it looks like I'll be able to get my head round it ok. X-bassist, the low end of the SEM is miles better than the others I've tried so far. I can see this being an 80s workhorse. Love that they all cheat a bit, especially having arps built in even if the originals didn't. Much as I want my 80s project to be quite faithful and I approach it in a far more restrictive way than I usually would, I have my limits...

Spark 2 may be the answer to my rhythmic prayers (do you all have those?), I can't think why I haven't properly evaluated it before, but that's one for another thread.

There's an Arturia Collection that came with my Arturia 88 controller-it's ok and I use it a little as it's pre-configured for my keyboard, but it doesn't rock my world.

That said, I feel like I have a wealth of synths with Omni and Komplete. Reaktor is amazing to me and sounds huge. Massive is great. FM 8 is useful. Absynth is interesting as long as I don't have to try to program it. With all of that and a few native Cubase thingies, I've not needed more.

Well any new synths I buy will be U-he. The Repro 1 has totally convinced me that his engines are more high fidelity.