The Sound Board

my experience so far isn't very comforting... these instruments (brass) sound rather weak. At pp dynamics the tone is lost and at ff they start sounding like car horns... and the attacks aren't too good either. I may be wrong, for I need to play some more with them, but so far quite disappointing.

ok, a boost of bass freq in the internal eq seems to help trumpets to get body and a more classical tone...

That’s the thing, Rob, there’s so many easy ways to adjust the sound. Play around with the different mics as well.

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 8:40 am That’s the thing, Rob, there’s so many easy ways to adjust the sound. Play around with the different mics as well.

yep... my impression is (trying for a classical orchestral tone) that if I'm using an IR based reverb it's better to just go with the MIC1-close mics exclusively, no virtual mics... these are based on IRs and I've never liked summing impulses as it tends to deteriorate sound. Timbre is much clearer this way.

RobS wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 10:39 am

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 8:40 am That’s the thing, Rob, there’s so many easy ways to adjust the sound. Play around with the different mics as well.

yep... my impression is (trying for a classical orchestral tone) that if I'm using an IR based reverb it's better to just go with the MIC1-close mics exclusively, no virtual mics... these are based on IRs and I've never liked summing impulses as it tends to deteriorate sound. Timbre is much clearer this way.

Makes sense.

As I say, I am less interested in these for Classical orchestral sound but paired with the saxes for pop/rock and jazz. And it’s considerably better than the now somewhat dated Broadway Big Band.

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 11:19 am

RobS wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 10:39 am

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 8:40 am That’s the thing, Rob, there’s so many easy ways to adjust the sound. Play around with the different mics as well.

yep... my impression is (trying for a classical orchestral tone) that if I'm using an IR based reverb it's better to just go with the MIC1-close mics exclusively, no virtual mics... these are based on IRs and I've never liked summing impulses as it tends to deteriorate sound. Timbre is much clearer this way.

Makes sense.

As I say, I am less interested in these for Classical orchestral sound but paired with the saxes for pop/rock and jazz. And it’s considerably better than the now somewhat dated Broadway Big Band.

Agree, and after the initial disappointment I'm starting to see the way to make these sound good...
here trying how to avoid phasing in the section of three tpts, how does it sound?

I exagerated the "inflating" on some of the notes...

RobS wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 12:18 pm

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 11:19 am

RobS wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 10:39 am

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 8:40 am That’s the thing, Rob, there’s so many easy ways to adjust the sound. Play around with the different mics as well.

yep... my impression is (trying for a classical orchestral tone) that if I'm using an IR based reverb it's better to just go with the MIC1-close mics exclusively, no virtual mics... these are based on IRs and I've never liked summing impulses as it tends to deteriorate sound. Timbre is much clearer this way.

Makes sense.

As I say, I am less interested in these for Classical orchestral sound but paired with the saxes for pop/rock and jazz. And it’s considerably better than the now somewhat dated Broadway Big Band.

Agree, and after the initial disappointment I'm starting to see the way to make these sound good...
here trying how to avoid phasing in the section of three tpts, how does it sound?
V-trumpets.mp3

And as usual, you make it sound great. Now I have to rethink my conclusion about not using them for Classical stuff

too kind Jay... now I have to dedicate myself to proofreading an opera, when all I really want is try trumpets/tbones combinations...

Here’s a little something I did today, after reading this thread, with the VTrumpet 1. Recorded and finished in something of a hurry, and constantly with one eye on the kitchen where, at the same time, I was preparing a ragu sauce (which, conveniently, has to cook for three, four hours, but you have to stir the thing every fifteen minutes or so). Finished the sauce and the mix at about the same time. After posting this post, I’m having a spaghetti.

I really do like the VHorns. They’re not perfect, far from it, and I would never attempt conventional brass work with them that has to sound 100% believable, but despite their weaknesses and imperfections, they do fit extremely well in my musical world (Zappa-meets-Ellington-meets-Stravinsky-meets-Mingus-meets-Kaempfert-meets-Rota-and-they-all-go-to-the-circus).

(The trumpet piece is probably not many people’s cup of tea — I quite like it though — but it does showcase rather a lot of the VTrumpet’s abilities, characteristics and strengths to good effect, I find. Also some of its weaker sides, of course.)

Something else: I still can’t get the glide to work with any of the saxophones. Latest versions of everything (which often makes the UI flicker, I’ve noticed), but still no glide. Every once in a rare while, I’ll hear a faint beginning of a glide, but 99% of the time, I’m getting silence where a glide into the next note should be. Can anyone confirm this, or am I doing something wrong? (The brass instruments glide without any problem though, so it would surprise me if I’m doing something wrong.) Thanks!

__

haha Piet your music always makes me smile... yes for this kind of very forward sound the trumpet works well. I'd like though to be able to have it sit on an orchestral stage. I'll keep trying...

as for glide, could it be that it was thought for brass and is simply a leftover in the saxophones, as part of the player structure?

That would be a strange decision. It's not as if saxophones can't glide, is it?
(And I seem to recall hearing a glide in one of the official demos.)

Maybe I'll ask AcousticSamples.

_

Piet De Ridder wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2022 4:20 pm That would be a strange decision. It's not as if saxophones can't glide, is it?
(And I seem to recall hearing a glide in one of the official demos.)

Maybe I'll ask AcousticSamples.

_

I just sent Arno an email.

Arno responded:
“ Hi Jay,

They work the same way (with low velocity or with a CC if you set it this way in the preferences), but it’s not the same effect.

On a trumpet, there is some sort of bend between notes when you do a slow note change.
On a saxophone it’s different, there is a slight 1/4 tone to 1/2 tone bend and then an abrupt change to the new note as the felt closes the hole (on legato down), it does the contrary which is an abrupt end of note and then a slow bend up to the new note.

If you want bends or glides, it’s better to use the pitch bend or the bend keyswitches.”

Thanks, Jay!

_

Ashermusic wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2022 9:36 am Arno responded:
“ Hi Jay,

They work the same way (with low velocity or with a CC if you set it this way in the preferences), but it’s not the same effect.

On a trumpet, there is some sort of bend between notes when you do a slow note change.
On a saxophone it’s different, there is a slight 1/4 tone to 1/2 tone bend and then an abrupt change to the new note as the felt closes the hole (on legato down), it does the contrary which is an abrupt end of note and then a slow bend up to the new note.

If you want bends or glides, it’s better to use the pitch bend or the bend keyswitches.”

thanks for the info Jay

Not interested in Saxes, but would be very interested if they did Solo Woodwinds, and Solo Strings.

I already have their V-Horns Brass.

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2022 4:02 pm Not interested in Saxes, but would be very interested if they did Solo Woodwinds, and Solo Strings.

I already have their V-Horns Brass.

Especially solo strings...

RobS wrote: ↑Oct 11, 2022 3:08 am

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2022 4:02 pm Not interested in Saxes, but would be very interested if they did Solo Woodwinds, and Solo Strings.

I already have their V-Horns Brass.

Especially solo strings...

Yes

meanwhile I keep doing my experiments in the spare time with the v-brass, could be very useful for me to be able to put these instruments in my orchestral mockups... and I've always believed in the reductionist principle of building ensembles from individual instruments, so here's another bit, from Dukas' "Fanfare pour preceder La Peri". I'd like to get a more rounded tone overall... and trombones are really hard to get to have the right timbre as an ensemble, don't know why.

Is that all V-Brass, Rob?

Lawrence wrote: ↑Oct 15, 2022 4:54 pm Is that all V-Brass, Rob?

Only trumpets and bones... Horns are a mixture of sm solo horn, vsl jupiter and 8dio solo horn. Tubas are sm tuba and 8dio...

Fantastic sound.

Lawrence wrote: ↑Oct 15, 2022 6:04 pm Fantastic sound.

I think they would shine in rapid moving passages, where conventional samples struggle. But first I wanted to find the right timbre...