The Sound Board

Hi ZeeCount,

Yes, That's right there is a limit how quiet the woodwind can play before the sound stops, but the degree of that transition to silence must not sound un-natural/too abrupt. There is a threshold that is acceptable, beyond that it sounds fake. That's what I'm referring to regarding the SWAM Woodwinds.

The Middle Register is quite important, so I'm a bit concerned about that.

Are you happy with the less woody sound after you tweaked the harmonics 2nd Harmonics down, and boosted the 5th a bit ? Does it sound more like a Silver Flute ?

I'm being extra cautious due to the high-price tag, and don't really need any unpleasant surprises, since I'm also getting other libraries before the end of this year.

Thanks,
Muziksculp

Piet De Ridder wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2021 5:33 pm Not bad, Count. In the lower register is sounds a bit water-hose-y though. And the performance in the YT-video you posted earlier is also much snappier. But again, not bad. Not bad at all.

_

Thanks, and agreed.

One thing I am yet to figure out is how to emulate a fingering error on legatos. Part of what makes legatos on woodwinds sound characteristic is that you can never press all the keys at exactly the same time. It causes partial notes and other noises, while the SWAM legatos are too clean. The C - D transition on the Oboe is a good example of this as you are going from the two keys being pressed to five, while simultaneously lifting another key. I know playing this on my wind controller doesn't have the same effect.

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2021 7:50 pm Are you happy with the less woody sound after you tweaked the harmonics 2nd Harmonics down, and boosted the 5th a bit ? Does it sound more like a Silver Flute ?

The basic tone is better, but it's still not what I'd want and I still have issues with how the attacks sound. I don't think I'd use the Flute in a project unless I wanted to do runs, or something like the Peter and the Wolf example.

Hi ZeeCount,

Thanks for the helpful feedback.

I think I will skip SWAM Flutes V3 for now, they would only make sense for me when they sound better, and more convincing than the sampled versions.

Cheers,
Muzikculp

ZeeCount wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2021 5:28 pm Had a bit of a play around with the Flute this morning on that bird theme from Peter and the Wolf.

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Thanks for sharing ZeeCount. I think this is a big improvement over the existing version from SWAM so I am definitely interested now!

Now he's having a lot of fun playing with SWAM V3 Woodwinds

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2021 5:37 pm Now he's having a lot of fun playing with SWAM V3 Woodwinds

That's also Peter's theme from Peter and Wolf, so I'm not the only one using that piece of music to demonstrate the SWAM Woodwinds

I'm beginning to change my mind about SWAM Flutes V3. Beginning to like them more, the more I hear them.

I will wait for the upcoming BF Sales, hopefully Audio Modeling will have a nice discount on the SWAM V3 Flutes.

Hi,

Here is a short test demo of the SWAM V3 Oboe.

I used Oboe 1 in this demo, and boosted its volume a bit in the mix, so it can be heard upfront, and clearly.

Added some Reverb, and EQ.

A few thoughts on your test, Muziksculp:

The pitch range of the melody is rather suited for an English horn solo or maybe even for Bassoon, if you want that pale tone. It is rather in that range where you don't use the Oboe, if you want a sweet, singing tone.

Your use of the mod wheel (or breath controller) for dynamics is IMO a bit off to fit to the instrument. Oboes and other double reeds don't have that much dynamic range down to pppp. They don't do "niente" as clarinets do. This is mostly apparent at 00:11. So, this is only a detail, but that moment spoils any hope of realism for me.

The Oboes tone has almost resemblance with a Saxophone in some notes. Those noise aspects are nothing you really hear like that during an orchestral recording. Therefore, the string pizzicati and the Oboe sound nothing like they were on the same room. I am not sure wether this is due to your settings or rather the way this VSTi sounds like.

I cannot say I like the AM Oboe, if this demo represents closely, how it sounds.

Hi FriFlo,

Thanks for the feedback. I did this demo in a rush, and I agree with all your comments about the oboe demo.

The range, and the dynamics are not the best options here. I will try to post another demos, spending more time on making sure I get a better performance, and use the more attractive register of the Oboe. I didn't use a breath controller, so I will also try using one for the dynamics.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Talking about Solo Oboe, What is your favorite/Go-To Solo Oboe at this time ?

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 10:59 am Talking about Solo Oboe, What is your favorite/Go-To Solo Oboe at this time ?

For general usage, the Cinematic Studio Woodwinds Oboe, for lyrical soloistic lines the Berlin Woodwinds Expansion A Oboe.

FriFlo wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 9:45 am The pitch range of the melody is rather suited for an English horn solo or maybe even for Bassoon, if you want that pale tone. With the Oboe it is rather in that range where you don't use the Oboe, if you want a sweet, singing tone.

Your use of the mod wheel (or breath controller) for dynamics is IMO a bit off to fit to the instrument. Oboes and other double reeds don't have that much dynamic range down to pppp. They don't do "niente" as clarinets do. This is mostly apparent at 00:11. So, this is only a detail, but that moment spoils any hope of realism for me.

I'd also add to this saying that to me (this is coming from an Oboist) the vibrato is too fast and too deep, especially in this range on the instrument. The attacks also sound wrong to me, almost like it is sliding into the notes. The attack 00:13 really stands out in this way as the Oboe is coming in at around mf, but sounds like it has a pp attack. Most attacks on the oboe are fairly abrupt, as it takes a lot of pressure to get the reed to vibrate.

I agree with FriFlo about the usage of the Oboe here. There are plenty of pieces in the classical repertoire that feature this range of the oboe, however usually when it is used this way it's for its rich sonorous sound, not for a sweet lyrical line.

Hi ZeeCount,

Thanks for the additional comments about the demo I posted.

I will try to take all your comments into consideration, and post a new demo when I have some time to dedicate to it.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

ZeeCount wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 1:34 pm I'd also add to this saying that to me (this is coming from an Oboist) (...)

Well, good to know! I know who to bother with any Oboe questions then in the future! :-)

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 10:59 am Talking about Solo Oboe, What is your favorite/Go-To Solo Oboe at this time ?

Cannot say I have one go-to ... for orchestral context mostly Berlin Woodwinds. I also like the Berlin Soloists Oboe for certain soli or the VSL Silent stage. In most situations the Berlin Woodwinds are just fine, though. But you don't get the same controllability as with AM/SM, of course!

However, you should ask ZeeCount what he would use!

FriFlo wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 1:50 pm

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 10:59 am Talking about Solo Oboe, What is your favorite/Go-To Solo Oboe at this time ?

Cannot say I have one go-to ... for orchestral context mostly Berlin Woodwinds. I also like the Berlin Soloists Oboe for certain soli or the VSL Silent stage. In most situations the Berlin Woodwinds are just fine, though. But you don't get the same controllability as with AM/SM, of course!

However, you should ask ZeeCount what he would use!

I would guess he uses his real Oboe

By the way, I also noticed that Audio Modeling doesn't have a video/audio demo of the new SWAM V3 Oboe, if they did I can at least compare my demo to it. I wonder if they plan to post some Oboe V3 videos in the near future ?

They only have a V3 Bassoon video at this time, and I like the way it sounds.

What do you think about the V3 Bassoon ?

I think that sounds a lot better than flute, clarinet and oboe. And the Saxophones are quite without any serious challenge at the moment - well, at least for this kind of very controllable, playable instrument. That is why I consider upgrading to v3 for the full WW bundle (I have all of their v2 woodwinds), I am just not really happy with the way they handle this cash grab. I am especially pissed off that they try to pressure you into this by setting a time limit for a "reduced" update price (which is not really a low price ...). That kind of business practice I find highly unattractive and whenever someone does something like that, every cell in my body develops some kind of aversion against paying any further cent to that developer ...

Hi FriFlo,

Yes, the Saxophones are probably the best sounding in their woodwind collection, from what I have heard so far, then the Bassooon. The Flutes I'm hearing the good, and the ugly, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

Yeah.. I get what you mean about the pressure they are putting via discount expirations, ..etc. Well.. they are a business. Let's not forget that.

By the way, I noticed that there are some important parameters that I might have to adjust for the SWAM V3 player, that might be the reason why the Attacks are not immediate, and the releases are not natural either. I need to spend some quality time experimenting with the Oboe V3, and use a Breath Controller, which I have. Also looking forward to check the English Horn, and Bassoon.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 1:51 pm I would guess he uses his real Oboe

To my shame I haven't picked up my oboe for a few years now. Biggest issue is reeds are quiet expensive, and only last for a few months or so. It takes a lot of practice and effort to stay in playing form on the oboe, so if I don't have a project to play it for it tends to fall away. I'm more of an ethnic woodwind player these days (irish whistles, irish flute, a couple of chinese flutes etc).

ZeeCount wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 11:53 pm

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2021 1:51 pm I would guess he uses his real Oboe

To my shame I haven't picked up my oboe for a few years now. Biggest issue is reeds are quiet expensive, and only last for a few months or so. It takes a lot of practice and effort to stay in playing form on the oboe, so if I don't have a project to play it for it tends to fall away. I'm more of an ethnic woodwind player these days (irish whistles, irish flute, a couple of chinese flutes etc).

Hi ZeeCount,

Interesting, I know Oboists are obsessed with perfecting making their Reeds, Do you make them, or you buy them already made ?

I also play various flutes, currently I'm into the Indian Bansuri flute. I recenty purchased two Bass Bansuri flutes, one in the key of G, and one in G#.

I also have other flutes from around the globe, and a left handed classical silver flute. Yup, I'm left handed when it comes to woodwind instruments, which I find to be a curse, especially for the modern keyed woodwind instruments. They have ignored us Left-handed players.

Actually, I was thinking about buying a Baroque Oboe, since it can be played by Left, or Right handed players. I also have, and play the Baroque Flute. (One-Keyed).

Cheers,
Muziksculp

OH ZeeCount,

With regards to Sample Libraries for Solo Woodwinds, which ones do you enjoy using ? Especially Oboe, Eng.Horn, and Flute ?

Thanks.

Muziksculp wrote: ↑Nov 10, 2021 12:20 am OH ZeeCount,

With regards to Sample Libraries for Solo Woodwinds, which ones do you enjoy using ? Especially Oboe, Eng.Horn, and Flute ?

Thanks.

For general usage, the Cinematic Studio Woodwinds oboe, for lyrical soloistic lines the Berlin Woodwinds Expansion A oboe. For full section writing it is hard to beat the Berlin Woodwind. Spitfire has a really nice tone, but the programming is clunky, and I find them unsuitable for anything faster than a leisurely pace.