StaffPad - iPad / Windows app with CineSamples, Spitfire and Orchestral Tools

[Guy Rowland]

This looks (and sounds) quite amazing. As a non-notator it will never be for me, but it could well transform composition for those whose primary work is done with notation and orchestral instruments. I suspect an iPad Pro and Apple Pencil will be far better and more fluid tools than all the complicated crap we currently deal with. The handwriting recognition promises to be excellent.

There are third party add ons from Sptfire Audio, CineSamples and Orchestral Tools, all using specially customised versions of their flagship products with which we are all familiar.

I couldn't see a quick intro video, but this is a demo score:



The getting started guide serves as a good introduction to the basics:



And this playback engine video goes into a little more detail to that side of things.



Import and export options look very solid. It's a shame for me personally that I'll never be able to use it...

Price is $89.99 for the basic app. Some of the third party add ons are listed on the Apple product website - https://apps.apple.com/app/staffpad/id1442074103 - but I can't see some of the ones in the promo videos, such as the Sptfire series. Most sections - eg CineStrings or CineBrass - are $99. Would be a good if those who own the full versions got a discount, I don't know if that's possible.

https://www.staffpad.net/

[Mikeybabes]

I've been using the notion app for IOS for a while and whilst its very clever, it's still no match for pencil and paper.

Staffpad looks interesting, but its expensive if you don't find it usable. I wish there were a trial or lite version I could play with first. There are also other competing apps like Symphony Pro that are £ 15.00.

Worth keeping an eye on though....

[lofi]

I've been using the notion app for IOS for a while and whilst its very clever, it's still no match for pencil and paper.

Staffpad looks interesting, but its expensive if you don't find it usable. I wish there were a trial or lite version I could play with first. There are also other competing apps like Symphony Pro that are £ 15.00.

Worth keeping an eye on though....

You can always return the app.
Think you can play with it for two weeks before returning it.
Might be a EU only thing but worth checking out.
Best,
/A

[Mikeybabes]

I’ve been listening to some work done with Third party libraries, and wow I’m impressed....I’ve also been watching a few videos - and it’s a very compelling piece of software. From what I’ve seen, it shows the lack of development in the notion app, which has been left to rot fro some time, which is a shame.

I have a 1st gen iPad Pro and pencil, and as someone who travels a great deal the idea of being able to carry this kind of power in such a portable and convenient package - well, I think I’m going to purchase this - though it’s going to be expensive by the time you’ve added some of the libraries.

When travelling I normally sit down to a hotel breakfast and read the latest news on my iPad. I could now do some serious work whilst nibbling my toast.

Every time I think I’m done spending money on this infernal passion of mine, some smart arse invents something terrific ....



.

[WindcryMusic]

This looks REALLY interesting to me ... but the reviews on the iOS store seem to be suggesting it is pretty seriously buggy right now, too much so for a $90 app. As much as I’d like to take the plunge, I think I’ll have to wait to see how things play out with this app long-term (or maybe for a sale price).

[Guy Rowland]

I've been using the notion app for IOS for a while and whilst its very clever, it's still no match for pencil and paper.

Is this Notion app connected to StaffPad? (Excuse my ignorance).

But the pencil and paper comment intrigued me. No doubt, I thought, but the point surely is that pencil and paper can't play a beuatiful sounding orchestra. The hoops you have to jump through to make it do so are, of course, quite colossal. Surely something 25% as good as pencil and paper, but then does this amazing trick of playing the damn thing convincingly, is an extraordindary thing?

I hope for the developers that they sort out teething problems quickly. When I saw the videos, I just kept thinking of so many digital artists who have embraced the iPad Pro completely, finding it a more appropriate tool for them than the old paradigm of complex computers and clumsy interfaces. I'd assume every serious music student would feel the exact same thing.

[WindcryMusic]

I've been using the notion app for IOS for a while and whilst its very clever, it's still no match for pencil and paper.

Is this Notion app connected to StaffPad? (Excuse my ignorance).

I think all @Mikeybabes meant was that Notion attempts to fill a very similar nitch on the iPad (notation with handwriting support and music playback), not to suggest that there is any relationship from the standpoint of the apps’ development.

I own Notion too, and if StaffPad worked as well as what their videos suggest, it would seem to be leaps and bounds beyond what Notion can do, so I too hope they pull it together and make StaffPad deliver on its promise. I’d love to be able to sit out on my porch this coming summer and write notation into my iPad Pro in such a fluid fashion, and be able to instantly hear the results in such quality samples. While I can already try to do so with Notion, it’s overly arcane, the handwriting support is less natural than I’d like, the playback quality (while not that bad) could be better, and the makers (Presonus) haven’t been fixing its bugs.

[Linos]

Bought StaffPad when it was relatively new. It's a neat concept. For me it didn't work. Too many hickups compared to paper and pencil. Too many things that you can't write, but have to input by clicking through menus and such. In the end I am much faster writing on paper, and then typing it into Sibelius.

[Mikeybabes]

Yes, Notion for Ipad and Staffpad are competing products...

Yeah, whilst I like Notion for iPad, it was a case of close but no cigar. What the biggest disappointment is that the software feels like it has been a little bit abandoned by Presonus. However, according to someone on VI-C there was a little update very recently (didn't notice it myself), but more importantly there is quite a big update coming shortly - which I'd be interested to see.

But what I'm seeing in Staffpad is way more than Notion can do. But it is expensive, particularly since it seems some of the add on libraries are £ 100.00 a pop, so by the time you have strings, woodwind, brass and percussion you could have spent getting on for £ 400-500 ! But if it is as good as it appears, then it could be transformative.

There also seems to be some rough edges that need sorting out, like the space requirements for libraries etc. So I think I'll be keeping an eye on things to see how it pans out.

If it was £ 30-40 I'd have just bought it anyway, but at £ 85.00 - plus the libraries, well it's far more of a considered purchase. However, I've got a feeling that when I next have a good month I'll end up buying it.

Funnily enough, though, it seems notation is more one the radar. I just got an email from Steinberg asking me fro complete a customer survey, and it all seemed to be about the integration of Dorico and Cubase.....

[WindcryMusic]

Yeah, whilst I like Notion for iPad, it was a case of close but no cigar. What the biggest disappointment is that the software feels like it has been a little bit abandoned by Presonus. However, according to someone on VI-C there was a little update very recently (didn't notice it myself), but more importantly there is quite a big update coming shortly - which I'd be interested to see.

Thanks very much for mentioning this. I was curious, so I just checked the Presonus Notion forum, and there was a post there saying that a major maintenance update for Notion (2.5) was released on the 6th, just a few days ago. I’d heard nothing about that, and when I went to my product updates screen in the Apple store, no Notion update was listed. But then I tried going directly to the Notion app page ... and to my surprise, there was an update button there. I don’t know why it’s not showing up in the product updates list, but at least I was able to get it, and will check it out later on today. It sure would be welcome news if they stepped up their game a little bit because of the competition that seems to be coming online.

[FriFlo]

Since I have an iPad pro with the bigger screen (first generation) and just need a pen, for 100€ this is something I would consider! Does anybody have the same iPad and could possibly tell me how performance is like with this app? Also, what are the pros and cons regarding the 1st and 2nd generation apple pencils? Are there any differences towards Staff Pad? There are plenty used offers on Apple pencils first generation, although, I suppose, the life expectancy of such a tool would be limited due to the battery inside?! Not sure, if used options should be considered ...

[WindcryMusic]

Since I have an iPad pro with the bigger screen (first generation) and just need a pen, for 100€ this is something I would consider! Does anybody have the same iPad and could possibly tell me how performance is like with this app? Also, what are the pros and cons regarding the 1st and 2nd generation apple pencils? Are there any differences towards Staff Pad? There are plenty used offers on Apple pencils first generation, although, I suppose, the life expectancy of such a tool would be limited due to the battery inside?! Not sure, if used options should be considered ...

If you have the first gen iPad Pro (which is also what I have), I believe your only option is the 1st gen Apple Pencil. And I've read that StaffPad has issues with erasing using the 1st gen Apple Pencil, which is another concern to me, but I'd assume they'd at least be able to address that soon. You can still buy the 1st gen version new from Apple, BTW ... no need to go to the used market.

I actually think I prefer Notion's way of erasing (scribbling over the unwanted note), rather than the "press down so hard you think you'll scratch the glass" method of StaffPad.

[WindcryMusic]

I gave in to my curiosity and bought StaffPad tonight, and thought it might be helpful if I share my first experience with it (on a first gen 12” iPad Pro with the original Apple Pencil).

It’s not as bad as I feared it might be from reading many of the reviews. I did have one crash back to the home screen after about 30 minutes of usage, but I lost very little work (only a couple of note markings) as a result. I’ve reported that crash to the developers, so I’ll see where that goes if anywhere. It certainly wasn’t crashing for me after every two measures, as one reviewer reported; my guess is that some users are not closing the unneeded background apps on their devices, and hence don’t have enough free memory for StaffPad to run for long before iOS closes it due to lack of memory.

Aside from the one crash, for the most part I was fairly pleased. (EDIT: I have been using StaffPad for about six hours today, my second day with it … long, uninterrupted sessions, and NO further crashes after the one I had on the first day. Which is much, much better than I’d expected.)

The handwriting recognition requires greater precision than does Notion, but it is also trying to recognize a greater variety of handwritten inputs so perhaps that is understandable. The forte symbol in particular seemed very difficult to get recognized (something I’ve seen reported elsewhere, too) until I watched one of the product videos that had the narrator sketching in that symbol, and when I watched his specific movement and attempted to mirror it, I finally got it to be recognized in a somewhat more consistent manner. One also has to be more precise about note head placement than in Notion ... but the positive side of that is that it is easy to zoom in on a particular measure in order to achieve that precision without as much difficulty. The handwriting recognition engine seems to take drawing speed into account ... for example, I can only get hairpins to be recognized if I draw them quite quickly (virtually as a slash across the page), while a slowly drawn hairpin, no matter how precisely formatted, will not be recognized. It’s odd, but I think I’ll get used to it.

Some have said that the pressure needed to erase with the older Apple Pencil is far too great, and that was something I was very worried about. What I’ve been finding is that if I press straight down with the Pencil, rather than at an angle, I can get it to switch into erase mode before it feels like I am going to damage the screen, and then once erase mode has been activated, I can stop applying any pressure at all and just scribble lightly over anything and everything I want to erase (it stays in erase mode thereafter until you lift the pencil off of the tablet surface).

The stock, built-in sounds seem superior to those of Notion. I haven’t bought any premium libraries yet, although I think at least Berlin is going to get added before very long, despite the cost, because the demos I’ve heard of it sound wonderful.

In general the app feels more tablet/stylus friendly than does Notion. I like little niceties like being able to expand (or contract) the room for notation in a particular bar by just dragging the next bar line ... no need for making some menu selection beforehand, such as I imagine Notion would require (if it supported such a thing at all, which I don’t believe it does).

The most important thing that is winning me over is that StaffPad is potentially a lot faster than Notion for handwriting, by virtue of always being in the handwriting mode except when you temporarily engage one of the other functions, whereas Notion keeps switching out of handwriting mode (without any outward indication) whenever you do almost anything else in the app, and then requires drilling into a menu to re-enable it when you notice that it isn’t working anymore. That became too much of a pain for me to keep on fighting with Notion ... it constantly dragged me out of the creative mindset and into the technical aspects of trying to operate the app, whereas StaffPad feels like it will allow me to stay in the creative space with far fewer technical interruptions, at least once I’ve gotten used to doing the handwriting in the way it likes.

Summation: StaffPad still needs some bug fixing and refinements to fully achieve its lofty goals, but it isn’t a disaster as it stands right now, and the promise of the app is sky high. Thus far at least, I’m happy that I gave in and bought it, and I’m looking forward to getting lots of use out of it.