FLUX:: / SPAT Revolution (released)

[Piet De Ridder]

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"SPAT Revolution, the most comprehensive real-time 3D-audio mixing engine ever designed, provides artists, sound-designers and sound-engineers the possibility to control the position of audio-sources in a three-dimensional environment, add room effects, send the result to a loudspeaker setup or a pair of normal stereophonic headphones, or export the result as audio stems to use in any other audio engine.
With the release of SPAT Revolution the SPAT v3 and the Ircam Tools 1.1 are discountined, meaning that they are not available for sale anymore. This does NOT mean that SPAT v3 is abandoned, and we will continue to support, update and maintain the SPAT v3 for the next coming years."

SPAT Revolution now consists of three plugins and a stand-alone application. Two plugins ('Send' and 'Return') can be used for routing audio out of your DAW (into stand-alone SPAT) and then back into the DAW. Unfortunately, with this first release that exciting functionality is still in an 'experimental' stage, meaning that, at the moment, the audio streaming will work fine in certain configurations, but is not guaranteed to work in all setups and configurations. Forthcoming updates will obviously address this.
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Price: 1490€
Upgrade offer for SPATv3 owners: a 35% discount

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[Tanuj Tiku]

Amazing! Looks like a VE Pro style reverb station where you can do everything you need to.

Though, I suspect this upgrade is worth it most for people who are working in surround. The upgrade V3 users like us is not cheap either!

Routing looks very modular and easy to use. That is a nice upgrade. I wish they would add some 'ease of use' features in SPAT V3 upgrades as well. Just some basic concepts from 'Revolution'.

[Guy Rowland]

So this experimental local audio path seems to answer all those questions I was asking many months ago (or mostly answer). So the workflow for standard music use might be.... hmm, let me see if I have this right....

1. Route every instrument from the DAW that you require into a standalone instance of SPAT, post-fader.
2. Create as many identical rooms as you need separate stems for (e.g. Strings, Brass etc)
3. Route the returns into your DAW groups.

...and what that would do (I think) is route the entire audio out of your DAW and then back in at the group level. In which case, presumably your standard DAW group routing doesn't do anything, the inserts take it away.

Is that close to being right or totally wrong?

And finally... which DAW hosts are currently supported using this new plugin method?

[FriFlo]

I would buy it right away for a fair upgrade fee, but 35% off indeed seems like a bad deal ... I am pretty sure they will be better offers for new customers to come even outside the educational offers. So, interesting product, but for now I will pass.

[playz123]

$2200 Canadian!!? That says it all for me. On to the next topic...

[Piet De Ridder]

It is indeed wise to wait a bit (and not just for the price to drop during a promotion) because the ‘experimental’ state in which the ‘Send’ and ‘Return’ plugins still are at this moment, means that for our purpose — integrating SPAT Revolution with a DAW and streaming audio between them — the useability of the software is not a given.
The stand-alone app works well, as do the powerful automation feautures, but with those important streaming plugins not being fully functional yet, it’s a bit difficult to see how DAW-based musicians/producers can be convinced — at this moment — to buy into SPAT Revolution or to upgrade from its predecessor.

A bit of a strange decision, I thought, to release Revolution in its current shape, when one of its most appealing and powerful features is still an uncertainty.

But when the day comes when all the uncertainties have been coded out of it, SPAT Revolution will be an sensational tool.

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Guy, here's the compatibility list:

All major native formats are supported
Windows – 7 SP1, 8.1 and 10, all in 64 bits only.
- VST (2.4)
- AAX Native*
- AAX AudioSuite*
- Waves WPAPI
- Merging VS3 (Only in Windows 7 64 bits)**

Mac OS X (Intel) – 10.7.5, 10.8.5, 10.9.5, 10.10.5, 10.11.6 and 1.12.6.
- VST (2.4)
- AU
- AAX Native*
- AAX AudioSuite*
- Waves WPAPI

* AAX Native & AAX AudioSuite in Pro Tools 11 and 12
** VS3 license not included in Flux:: standard license. Additional VS3 Native/MassCore license for Pyramix 10/11 & Ovation 6/7 is available from Merging Technologies: http://www.merging.com/sales
Due to AVID ProTools changing to AAX, from Version 3 (v3) RTAS for AVID ProTools is no longer supported.

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[Guy Rowland]

Piet, I was really referring to:

the audio streaming will work fine in certain configurations, but is not guaranteed to work in all setups and configurations

I was assuming that referred to specific hosts, but perhaps it's more fuzzy than that?

[heisenberg]

According to Flux/IRCAM they have issued a new release for SPAT Revolution that addresses the deficiencies and unmet expectations of their initial release. They will have a presence at AES in New York this week, so if anyone is going or could go that has an interest in SPAT could do some recon, that would be great.

Here is the email that was sent out about the SPAT Revolution update...

NEW BUILD AVAILABLE

Today we've released a new build of the SPAT Revolution with a lot of bug-fixes and improvements (for full list, see the change log in Flux:: Center). The Send and Return plug-ins now fully supports audio through local audio path, and the Avid S3L/S6L consoles are now supported as well. In addition we've added support for the Dolby Atmos and Ambisonic buses in Pro Tools.

http://www.fluxhome.com/download



AES NEW YORK 2017

We look forward to meet you all at the AES 2017 in New York - Stop by our booth for a full demonstration of the SPAT Revolution, or just pop by and say hi to us. You find us in the AVID Developer Pavilion, Booth 504P.

This year we also have the honor to present Gaël Martinet, Flux:: founder, as speaker in the Audio for Cinema: AC01 - 3D Audio Tools for Immersive Audio conference - Wednesday the 18th at 10:45 AM (Rm 1E07 (5.1)) - Welcome!

http://www.aes.org/events/143/

Be very curious to know if the send/return works as advertised and if the ability to effectively run multiple SPAT instances of SPAT (within a single SPAT instance) on numerous tracks works and is computationally efficient.

[Hannes_F]

According to Flux/IRCAM they have issued a new release for SPAT Revolution that addresses the deficiencies and unmet expectations of their initial release.

Hear, hear ...

[Lawrence]

I may be going. If I do, I'll try to ask your questions.

[Daryl]

Does anyone have an update on this. I was going to buy another couple of copies of SPAT v3, but I see it has been discontinued. So, if I want all studios to remain compatible, I need 4 copies of SPAT Revolution. Gulp. Any new information would be gratefully received.

D

[1gc]

Daryl, you can find used versions of Spat 3 . I found mine this way.
g.c.

[Daryl]

Daryl, you can find used versions of Spat 3 . I found mine this way.
g.c.

Thanks. I did look, but have been unable to source anything yet. I will attempt to put a "wanted" poster on VI-C, probably, in case anyone wants to sell.

[lofi]

Here’s one that sells a license.
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=401800

Daryl, if all else fails I can sell you mine mine.
Just let me check about license transfer and such.
Best,
/Anders

[Daryl]

Thanks, I will check it out.

[alanb]

I've been agonizing over whether to move up from Spat V3 (thank you Piet, for jump-starting me, long ago, with your explanatory videos!) to Spat Revolution . . . but the price . . . the price . . . even with the current 50% 'upgrade' discount, the price . . .

Then I noticed that Ina-GRM had just come out with two new free plugins, SpaceMaster and SpaceVR, to be used in conjunction with their Spaces3D plugin (which I have as part of their Complete Tools II collection).

I have no idea whether "Spat Revolution versus Ina-GRM Spaces" is a proper apples-to-apples comparison, and haven't been able to find anyone on The Internets saying whether it is, or even mentioning both programs on the same page.

Likewise, I wonder whether upgrading to Spat Revolution is necessary, or even makes sense, when there are so many less expensive options available that at least appear to do some or all of what Spat Revolution is supposed to do, including but not limited to:

Dear Reality's 'dearVR pro'

Tripin' Lab's 'Sound Trajectory'

Noisemakers' 'AMBI BUNDLE HD'

Is anyone here sufficiently familiar with any other multichannel/spatialization programs/bundles that they can compare/contrast them with Spat Revolution? Thanks!!

[Piet De Ridder]

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Spent a bit of time with GRM Spacemaster and in its current state, I have to say, it looks, feels and sounds to me rather like a rough, unfinished and sketchy something with which you’d go to a financer in the hope of touching him/her for enough funding to enable further development of the software into something that’s really powerful, versatile, that has actual musical usefulness and that is also pleasant to work with. At the moment however, none of these descriptions apply, I find. There’s a lot of potential there, I suppose, but there is still way too much missing to make this, in its current version, a musically useful tool.

Have been paying close attention to most anything that claims to be able to do some of what SPAT does, but so far, I haven’t heard anything that even begins to come in the distant vicinity, let alone close. No software, to my ears, is quite as convincing, versatile and solid — both musically and sonically — when it comes to placing sound sources in a room and allowing the user near-complete control over every possible attribute or characteristic of that interaction.

As for SPAT Revolution: I’d love to be able to tell a few things about this software but, despite having been part of the beta-team — by far the weirdest beta-test I’ve ever been in — I have absolutely nothing to share, other than the fact that Flux, once again, appears to be making the exact same mistakes as they did with earlier versions of SPAT: (1) pretty awful communication with their users or potential users, and (2) assuming that the software will somehow sell itself. With a price tag as hefty as SPAT Revolution’s is however, coupled with its high degree of impenetrability and complexity and further hindred by a complete lack of initiative on Flux’s part to provide good documentation and musically relevant tutorials, I fear that that is a rather naïve (or overly self-confident) assumption. The few videos which they made, have — I find — an alienating rather than inviting effect, and the presentation of the software on the website lacks just about all stimuli for most existing SPAT v3 users to seriously consider the upgrade, it seems to me.
(The fact that the website still mentions that the input and output streaming is still in an experimental stage, doesn’t help either of course. I mean, even if these problems have meanwhile been addressed, which I don’t know, the mere fact that Flux can’t be bothered to update the product’s webpage to communicate this all-important information, indicates that they have very little interest/competence in presenting and marketing the software in a way that does justice to it.)

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[Tanuj Tiku]

I am just worried, they will discontinue support for SPAT V3. And that’s not good news for existing users.

[FriFlo]

Yes, I would hate them pulling the plug on v3! That plugin is sort of useful to me, but use has become quite rare to me. Most of my libraries are recorded in situ and only require a bit of reverb. Investing in a plugin, that needs a full host application to be launched just in order to use the plugin is out of question for me. It is simply overkill for the few cases I use Spat. Further, I would not drop anywhere near as much cash on that plugin, just to be able to continue using it. If they drop support on v3, I will probably sell my copy, so that someone else who might want to upgrade can make use of that.
I think they make a big mistake in marketing this tool only in one version that is financially not feasible for most musicians. And they continue their stupidity in business decision by thinking they could get another 800€ from users of v3 to buy into their half brown beta version ... my trust in the survival one this company is quite low! :-)

[Daryl]

I am just worried, they will discontinue support for SPAT V3. And that’s not good news for existing users.

It depends on what you mean by "support". The last ever update was released earlier this year, so it is what it is.

I've just bought Revolution, so once we really get into the nitty gritty, I'll report back. As an aside, each purchase of Revolution actually provides two licences...!

[Luciano Storti]

Will be very curious to see how you get along with it Daryl. My tendency right now is to not upgrade.

[Daryl]

Will be very curious to see how you get along with it Daryl. My tendency right now is to not upgrade.

I was originally thinking of just getting another SPAT3 licence, but once I found that there were two licences per Revolution, it didn't make sense. The other thing I'm, hoping is that I can use the same preset in both Pro Tools and Nuendo.

I should be able to report back by mid January, as we have a ton of mixing to do in the coupe of weeks before that.

[Luciano Storti]

Appreciate it, Daryl. Even at the more modest 35% off, it might still be the only great solution available.

[Lawrence]

Daryl-my impression is that you do most or all of your recording live. I assume you record in situ-what do you use SPAT for?

[Daryl]

Daryl-my impression is that you do most or all of your recording live. I assume you record in situ-what do you use SPAT for?

Usually when doing overdubs at my studio. However, at the moment we have a musical to prepare the programming for the keyboard parts, and that requires lost of sample programming and Kontakt instrument creating...! The plan is to make sure that everything sounds like the band is playing in the pit, including the sampled instruments on the keyboard parts, and then all the live engineer has to do is add reverb to taste.